A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
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23-08-2012, 08:38 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 01:53 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 06:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Hi TR.
I know you still have lots of catching up to do with such a bombardment of so many pages of truths and reasons but here's another question for you...

What value to society will your future role afford?

It will bring a diversity of thought to the table and spur intellectual reflection in the areas of science, philosophy, and religion. According to my belief, it will also bring the hope of salvation and love of Christ to all people.

Hello TrueReason,
i am late for the party, anyway, welcom and enjoy your stay.

I am not sure you understood the question right up there.
Its talking about your role in the play.
You are really want to tell me, you will bring diversity to what so ever?
You are walking around in 2000 year-old shoes, following the path of your ancestors, reading in an old book, not looking right or left your way.
There where you stand now, thousands of people have stood befor.
You and your god are both yesterdays news.
Befor you spur the intellectual reflections of people like Dawin, Dawkins, Hitchens and Krauss you have to spur yourself out of your little wet-dream of immortality.
You and your fellow didn't bring diversity, you bring simplicity.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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23-08-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 02:01 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 08:10 AM)Bishadi Wrote:  If jesus did not finish the job, what is coming?
What is it that christians are awaiting?

We are awaiting the return of Christ in which everyone will be resurrected from the dead and given new bodies. We will then live with Christ as King for eternity on the new earth.

Nop, you are awaiting the zombie-man, not we. We awaiting the newest pictures coming from curiosity from mars. The rest of what you await's is so boring, could not even imagin how. I don't play harp, i don't like wings attached to my sholders and i heat to stay on clouds in long white shirts forever.
Honestly, if i die, i want to stay death. I don't want to meet somebody, i want to rest. My life is hard enough and if its done, its done. The very last thing i want is beeing resurrected and THE BIG MAN says: Hey pale, grab your toolbox, the boiler leaks.
Thanks, but no thank you!

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23-08-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 01:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  I apologize if my caps of innocent was taken as shouty, I was merely doing it to emphasize the word.
I believe everyone, including myself, are worthy of God's wrath, so yes, man, woman, and child are worthy of destruction. Thankfully, God has a provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ.

God is the ultimate moral authority. He is the ultimate judge. While it is His right and responsibility to punish, I am a sinner amongst sinners and so I do not have the right to make such punishment out of my own will.

When we act according to God's will we are acting morally. When we act against his will we are acting immorally. We cannot judge whether his actions are good or not because by definition they are good. We can't question his subjective judgement.

If God existed, this would still be a disturbing and dangerous idea. Anyone who believes they hear the word of God is justified in any act. Soldiers on both sides of a war can believe that God is on their side. Suicide bombers are justified in their actions. Their actions are good in their estimation because by their estimation it is gods will.

What about God's role in the universe justifies this?
* The fact that he created it? If I raise a child do I have the right to kill it?
* That he is omniscient and omnipotent? But strangely not so omniscient or omnipotent that he can tell those guys that are getting his words wrong that they are incorrect? Is he so impotent as to not be able to put a stop to suicide bombings performed in his name?

I don't see any justification for excluding God's actions from scrutiny. His actions as recorded in his book include
* the flooding of the world killing nearly every man woman and child,
* the killing of the innocent firstborn children in Egypt, plus however many were killed by his plagues
* the commands to the Israelites to kill everyone they found in various Palestinian cities
* the killing of every man woman and child who stayed behind in Sodom and Gomorrah
* many many more

These actions would have any nation placed under UN sanctions. Mere humans have better, higher morals than those claimed for this perfect loving God.

How do you justify God's actions? Are you willing to settle for "his ways are not our ways", or "he has a plan"? Do the ends justify the means? If we are made in his image why do his ways seem so alien?

(22-08-2012 01:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  As for God's voice being in my head, I don't believe that at all. God's revelation is extremely rare, and probably wouldn't be a "voice in my head." God's word and will to mankind can be found in the Scriptures. And before you try to say that God orders us to kill people in the Old Testament, you must understand that most of the OT is descriptive not prescriptive. It merely describes how God acted in human history at certain times, and it should not be taken as a lease to destroy non-believers at will. I hope that answers your question.

But if you were sure that you had a message from God to murder and commit genocide, the resulting actions would be good and moral, right?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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23-08-2012, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2012 10:38 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 03:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 02:21 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Zeus is a god, therefore you are just asking me the question I asked you, in which I've given you my answer, so now answer mine. At this point, I'm not arguing for the God of the Bible.

OK, but why don't you believe in Zeus or Zoroaster or Mithras or Odin or ...

I've seen Apollo down there, and he's not looking good.

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(22-08-2012 01:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  I apologize if my caps of innocent was taken as shouty, I was merely doing it to emphasize the word.
I believe everyone, including myself, are worthy of God's wrath, so yes, man, woman, and child are worthy of destruction. Thankfully, God has a provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Why did God need to kill his only son (also himself) in order to save those who sin?

(22-08-2012 01:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  God is the ultimate moral authority. He is the ultimate judge. While it is His right and responsibility to punish, I am a sinner amongst sinners and so I do not have the right to make such punishment out of my own will.

Violence and bigotry is not only exclusive to the Old Testament.

(22-08-2012 01:50 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  As for God's voice being in my head, I don't believe that at all. God's revelation is extremely rare, and probably wouldn't be a "voice in my head." God's word and will to mankind can be found in the Scriptures. And before you try to say that God orders us to kill people in the Old Testament, you must understand that most of the OT is descriptive not prescriptive. It merely describes how God acted in human history at certain times, and it should not be taken as a lease to destroy non-believers at will. I hope that answers your question.

Well, the Old Testament shows that God acted immorally quite frequently.

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23-08-2012, 11:04 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 12:27 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Well that was quicker than I expected.
That's what she said. Laughat

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23-08-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
The whole thing with god's fixation on worshiping and sacrifices reminds me on an ex-girlfriend of mine.
Everytime i talk to another female, even the cashier in the mall, she freakt out.
You don't love me anymore, If you didn't stop watching the boob's of that bitch i scratch your eyes out of you skull... all stuff, loving beeings say to keep her realationship fresh and interesting.
A long time i didn't care about it, because she was soooo cute and a really good suc.... ähm... she was... nice to me, sometimes, you know.
After a wile the flames getting colder and she overbend the bow. Don't hang out with the boys, you never spend your time with me, blah, blah, blah....
On day I told that i am finish with her.
Oh, what a surprize... now she became creative. She scratch the varnish of my car, she throw away my stuff and tell my familie and friend's it's all my fold.
From that day on i ignored her completely.
No foncalls, no meetings, o hello, only goodby and farewell.
Sometimes you have to reject a selfish, jealous and vindictive beeing, in order to stay healthy.

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04-09-2012, 03:08 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
Remember kids, when you're in the middle of a debate, if you don't want to answer a question, just avoid the question and never respond! That'll show'em! Make lots of assertions without reason or cause and things to back them up. When things get difficult, toss a red herring out there. AVOID answering hard questions at all costs! If all else fails... mysteriously disappear.
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06-09-2012, 06:24 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-09-2012, 07:05 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(22-08-2012 09:40 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Submission to the husband would be done in joy because the husband understands, cares for, and loves his wife. He wants her to be happy and joyful and all she wants and needs. The husband gives love and understanding in return of respect and submission.

So basically like a puppy or pet.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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07-09-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(21-08-2012 07:26 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  All of that "nothing" is actually something. Gravity is something. Laws are something. Nothing is nothing. Genetic diseases I believe are due to the fall of man. Take it or leave it, that's my explanation. In the return of Christ, believers are promised new physical bodies.

Can't imagine what kind of people, you as a Pastor, might convince with those arguments...

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