A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
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20-08-2012, 07:56 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
Welcome TrueReason,
to a site where you might indeed find some truth and lots of reason.

Please bear in mind that there are a wide spectrum of views held by the folks here. Maybe that can be your first takeaway... no such thing as an Atheist (note the capitalisationism) worldview.

Start with and keep an open mind and we (or at least I) will do the same.

Be prepared for more than just a little cursing (Girly-style) as there are some here that consider the religious-meme to be a virus and that those infected have often been victims of child abuse (sympathy abounds here).
And I don't mean catholic-style child-rape (though there are some here who have been victims of that too), I mean mental abuse by the willful disctruction of the desire to and the ability to think critically.

The ex-perpetrators of this crime who have confessed their "sins" (there are some here) are also treated with sympathy and often respect.

Current, and in your case future, perpetrators of this crime could well be treated with utmost contempt.

I know one person on this site who has asked to change seats on a flight cos they found themselves next to a guy in a dress, to avoid the inevitable conviction for murder!

Just sayin'

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20-08-2012, 07:57 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 07:45 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 07:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sometimes I feel like putting your Celtic ass in a Girly headlock followed by a noogie while repeating "Leave the puppies alone Celt, they are incapable of understanding what you're saying." Other times I just say meh, fuck it.

Hey, I welcomed KC's friend Travis. Compare his introductory message with TrueReason's... the guy is here to convert. I don't welcome the inconsiderate. Furry Muff? Unsure

I appreciate that by the way. Trav is a groovy dude.

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20-08-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
Hey dude! Welcome to the forums. Come sit down and have a drink with us.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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20-08-2012, 08:31 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 07:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 07:45 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  Hey, I welcomed KC's friend Travis. Compare his introductory message with TrueReason's... the guy is here to convert. I don't welcome the inconsiderate. Furry Muff? Unsure

I appreciate that by the way. Trav is a groovy dude.

Conversation is good. Travis (from the little he's posted) will be no more "trouble" than you are, here. There's nothing objectionable about that. But can you see why I found TrueReason's opening statement to be objectionable? I'm not asking you to understand how I think (exactly); simply that you understand how TrueReason's purpose for coming here can be seen (by me, at least) as antagonistic and inconsiderate.
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20-08-2012, 08:36 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 07:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 06:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're right on that.

Can we please stop agreeing?

It is quite disturbing, isn't it? Shocking

Erxy - please run a check on the space-time continuum. I thought I heard some tearing.Consider

That was probably just Uranus. Drinking Beverage

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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20-08-2012, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2012 09:05 PM by Anjele.)
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
I have a difficult time understanding why a theist, especially one that is planning to preach as a vocation, avocation...whatever, would feel the need to join a forum of Atheists.

I understand the concept of sharpening your debating skills but what your introduction says to me is that you want to able to stand firm in your beliefs and opinions no matter what someone says, no matter how compelling the argument.

An open mind for give and take and two-sided conversations seems like a more pleasant way to share ideas. I am a little wary. For now, I will let Girly handle the swearing as he is in rare form, but if necessary, I will join in.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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20-08-2012, 08:56 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 07:45 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  Hey, I welcomed KC's friend Travis. Compare his introductory message with TrueReason's... the guy is here to convert. I don't welcome the inconsiderate. Furry Muff? Unsure

The fuck I give a shit if he's here to convert me? Got no problem dicking with Don Quixote wannabes for my own amusement.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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20-08-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 07:27 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Anyway Tom, I have 5 questions I like to ask Christians when they come.

If you don't want to answer these, don't feel obligated.

I will gladly answer them Big Grin

Quote:1) Do you believe in the Doctrine of Free Will (Arminian) or the Doctrine of Election (Calvinist)?
I believe in the doctrine of election. My theology is basically reformed, although the more I learn, the less dogmatic I am on Arminian-Calvinist issues because I can understand how some can come to Arminian conclusions. My problem with Arminianism is that it ultimately leads to the conclusion that the intelligence and goodness of a person is impetus for his salvation.

Quote:2) What is your belief on Origins? Are you a Young Earth Creationist (YEC), Old Earth Creationist (OEC), Progressive Creationist (PC), Theistic Evolutionist (TE), or an Evolutionary Creationist (EC)?
I am an old earth creationist who leans towards a literary understanding of the Genesis account rather than a literal chronological account of the creation account. It is essential that we look at Old Testament through the eyes of those to whom it was written, rather than the idiosyncratic, scientifically precise world in which we live. By this I mean that the Genesis account is only a small sliver of everything that occurred at the beginning of time, and that it shouldn't be read like a scientific account of what entirely occurred. What is most important is that there was a Creator who created this universe.

Quote:3) What is your eschatological belief?
I tend to learn towards a historicist understanding of revelation, though I also am wary of reading too much into vivid details found in that book. I believe in a post-trib rapture and tentatively hold to pre-millenialism.
I believe in conditional immortality which is the belief that man is not by nature immortal, and that when he dies he has no conscious existence outside of the body. Conscious existence is exclusive to the body and therefore will resume once one's spirit is returned to his or her resurrected body at the return of Christ.
I believe that once a sinner is cast into hell he is ultimately destroyed or annihilated, that is I do not believe in eternal torture. All of these beliefs are in line with Advent Christian theology, which is the denomination I plan on becoming a pastor in.

Quote:4) Do you believe the Bible is 100% literal?
If you mean literal in the sense that if the Bible says that if your eye causes you to lust you should pluck it out, then no I do not believe it is 100% literal. But I think that is simply common sense. Biblical literature is known for vivid imagery and its use of hyperbole, and so it would be unwise to take the Bible literally in that sense.

Quote:5) Do you believe "inspired" equates to being literally inerrant?
Again, this depends upon what you mean by inerrant. If you mean do I believe the Bible is completely without error with regard to science and history, then no, I don't believe that. While the Bible is a very trustworthy source for ancient history, actual recording of events aren't necessarily to the exactitude valued by modern society. Yet if God intention was not to provide a perfect history book, or a scientifically accurate science book, then there is no error on God's part in how the Bible was inspired. The Bible was written to teach more basic truths, not to teach quantum physics. It was written to a people in way in which they could understand it, and in a literary style reflective of that culture.
Therefore, I do not find it the least bit injurious to say the Bible is not a perfect history or science book, for that was not God's intention. God's intention was to record the story of creation, the fall of man, man's failure to be right in the eyes of God, and the redemption and hope of resurrection found in Jesus Christ. It's the story of the love of God for mankind, despite the fact that we daily spit in His face. So by my definition, the Bible is indeed inerrant for it accomplishes exactly what God sent out His Word to do: to send out love and hope to the nations.
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20-08-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 08:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have a difficult time understanding why a theist, especially one that is planning to preach as a vocation, avocation...whatever, would feel the need to join a forum of Atheists.

I understand the concept of sharpening your debating skills but what your introduction says to me is that you want to able to stand firm in your beliefs and opinions no matter what someone says, no matter how compelling the argument.

An open mind for give and take and two-sided conversations seems like a more pleasant way to share ideas. I am a little wary. For now, I will let Girly handle the swearing as he is in rare form, but if necessary, I will join in.
I assure you that if you could present a viable naturalistic explanation for the origin of the universe that I would strongly consider leaving Christianity. I haven't seen such proof, and thus I remain a theist.

In the words of Joseph Joubert, "Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love the truth." I assure you I love the truth more.
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20-08-2012, 09:20 PM
RE: A future Pastor and Christian Apologist
(20-08-2012 09:18 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  
(20-08-2012 08:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have a difficult time understanding why a theist, especially one that is planning to preach as a vocation, avocation...whatever, would feel the need to join a forum of Atheists.

I understand the concept of sharpening your debating skills but what your introduction says to me is that you want to able to stand firm in your beliefs and opinions no matter what someone says, no matter how compelling the argument.

An open mind for give and take and two-sided conversations seems like a more pleasant way to share ideas. I am a little wary. For now, I will let Girly handle the swearing as he is in rare form, but if necessary, I will join in.
I assure you that if you could present a viable naturalistic explanation for the origin of the universe that I would strongly consider leaving Christianity. I haven't seen such proof, and thus I remain a theist.

In the words of Joseph Joubert, "Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love the truth." I assure you I love the truth more.

Okay, maybe you can stay around a while. Tongue

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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