A "gotcha" argument for Satan
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01-04-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(27-03-2015 01:51 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Fine, but why do you assume one learns nothing in Heaven and nothing in Hell? The Bible indicates quite the opposite, actually, and further, that others learn from our experiences and learning there.

Oh I crave the day when theists stop beginning their talking points with "the bible indicates" or "the bible says"!! When will they understand that this tactic on a forum of skeptics is absolutely useless, if not idiotic.

Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-04-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(01-04-2015 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 01:51 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Oh I crave the day when theists stop beginning their talking points with "the bible indicates" or "the bible says"!! When will they understand that this tactic on a forum of skeptics is absolutely useless, if not idiotic.

Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

Of course you would not want us to quote the bible since we do ACCURATELY shed light on what is in that book, that is not talked about in Sunday bible class. Better yet would be to not quote that book as this will keep your god character in good graces with his gullible flock. Gotta take the good and bad there Quirky. Sorry it upsets you to be reminded of what your imaginary father figure is really like, you know - the big picture.Sleepy

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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01-04-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
I'd be hard pressed to say that anyone, including the most savvy of atheists, could cause a theist to abandon his/her faith. It is something that unravels on its own. I would discuss with them, but not argue. Or label them stupid, etc. I was once a theist...and many here were once theists. By personal choice, one must come to the conclusion that religion is man made. Sleepy

Be true to yourself. Heart
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02-04-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(01-04-2015 02:00 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

Of course you would not want us to quote the bible since we do ACCURATELY shed light on what is in that book, that is not talked about in Sunday bible class. Better yet would be to not quote that book as this will keep your god character in good graces with his gullible flock. Gotta take the good and bad there Quirky. Sorry it upsets you to be reminded of what your imaginary father figure is really like, you know - the big picture.Sleepy

You must have gone to some dull Sunday classes. We talk about ALL the EXACT same problem verses where I attend that you talk about. The sole difference is I usually quote several verses together for context rather than snippets...

Like where the Bible says THERE IS NO GOD.

Because it does! It says THE FOOL SAYS INWARDLY, "There is no God."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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02-04-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(02-04-2015 10:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:00 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Of course you would not want us to quote the bible since we do ACCURATELY shed light on what is in that book, that is not talked about in Sunday bible class. Better yet would be to not quote that book as this will keep your god character in good graces with his gullible flock. Gotta take the good and bad there Quirky. Sorry it upsets you to be reminded of what your imaginary father figure is really like, you know - the big picture.Sleepy

You must have gone to some dull Sunday classes. We talk about ALL the EXACT same problem verses where I attend that you talk about. The sole difference is I usually quote several verses together for context rather than snippets...

Like where the Bible says THERE IS NO GOD.

Because it does! It says THE FOOL SAYS INWARDLY, "There is no God."

Understand..understand, so Q, quote me the context regarding taking virgin girls as spoils of war, killing babies in the womb, and permissible rape. Just make these three attempts to shed light on context as you spout all of the time. There are more but we can start with the obvious (and presume easy) topics for you to explain using "context".

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-04-2015, 11:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2015 11:19 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(02-04-2015 10:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:00 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Of course you would not want us to quote the bible since we do ACCURATELY shed light on what is in that book, that is not talked about in Sunday bible class. Better yet would be to not quote that book as this will keep your god character in good graces with his gullible flock. Gotta take the good and bad there Quirky. Sorry it upsets you to be reminded of what your imaginary father figure is really like, you know - the big picture.Sleepy

You must have gone to some dull Sunday classes. We talk about ALL the EXACT same problem verses where I attend that you talk about. The sole difference is I usually quote several verses together for context rather than snippets...

Like where the Bible says THERE IS NO GOD.

Because it does! It says THE FOOL SAYS INWARDLY, "There is no God."

oooh can I play scripturama too? *claps hands excitedly*

(KJV) Psalm 14:1

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.


(KJV) Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

uhoh, whole lot of Christians going to hell it seems Consider

Big Grin oh the joy of picking scriptures Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-04-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(27-03-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 02:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  In my view, I would say you have an example of what is fundamentally wrong with the educational system that has existed for centuries. There shouldn't be a motivation based on desiring to get "good grades" or obeying the power of the teacher. The purpose of being in a school class is to grow and learn. Those should be the reasons if you're following a professors syllabus or guidelines to read something. If you deem it worthy to experience you should take to those orders, and a teacher should be trying to find a way to engage all the people without resorting to "extortion" (if you want to call it that.)

And when it comes to God/Satan. You have experience with these "persons?" Seeing Satan as anything but that one character in Job seems odd for a proclaimed literal interpretation of the bible. That doesn't help define what good or bad even is either.

Fine, but why do you assume one learns nothing in Heaven and nothing in Hell? The Bible indicates quite the opposite, actually, and further, that others learn from our experiences and learning there.

I haven't a clue where you're drawing up that idea from, or what you even think that means.

I'm still not getting where your supposed literal takings of the bible get these ideas of Satan and Hell from. Almost all of the contexts of those as grand christian figures came to be through poetic writings and often post-biblical texts.

There is plenty of out of context cases I've seen over years non-believers use, like the argument about the tree you can see from across the earth which sounds illogical, as it is because it was from a dream in it's text... Though I think often it's not any "out of context" issue. It's that atheist aren't granting "context" as justifying in the case of it being alright or morally acceptable. It's different literary modes of studying in that way that comes out. For example I read essays by Christopher Hitchens ripping Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita as not justifiable just because the character is shameful and it's 60s era. And he condemned the text being written just as he would often condemn Christianity and the bible.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-04-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(01-04-2015 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 01:51 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Oh I crave the day when theists stop beginning their talking points with "the bible indicates" or "the bible says"!! When will they understand that this tactic on a forum of skeptics is absolutely useless, if not idiotic.

Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

Which version?
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)?
American Standard Version (ASV)?
Amplified Bible (AMP)?
Aramaic Bible in Plain English?
BRG Bible (BRG)?
Common English Bible (CEB)?
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)?
Contemporary English Version (CEV)?
Darby Translation (DARBY)?
Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)?
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)?
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)?
English Standard Version (ESV)?
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)?
Expanded Bible (EXB)?
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)?
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)?
Good News Translation (GNT)?
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)?
International Children’s Bible (ICB)?
International Standard Version (ISV)?
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)?
Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)?
King James Version (KJV)?
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)?
Lexham English Bible (LEB)?
Living Bible (TLB)?
The Message (MSG)?
Modern English Version (MEV)?
Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)?
Names of God Bible (NOG)?
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)?
New American Standard Bible (NASB)?
New Century Version (NCV)?
New English Translation (NET)?
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)?
New International Version (NIV)?
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)?
New King James Version (NKJV)?
New Life Version (NLV)?
New Living Translation (NLT)?
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)?
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)?
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)?
Revised Standard Version (RSV)?
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)?
The Voice (VOICE)?
World English Bible (WEB)?
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)?
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)?
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)?

#sigh
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04-04-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(02-04-2015 05:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

Which version?
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)?
American Standard Version (ASV)?
Amplified Bible (AMP)?
Aramaic Bible in Plain English?
BRG Bible (BRG)?
Common English Bible (CEB)?
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)?
Contemporary English Version (CEV)?
Darby Translation (DARBY)?
Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)?
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)?
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)?
English Standard Version (ESV)?
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)?
Expanded Bible (EXB)?
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)?
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)?
Good News Translation (GNT)?
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)?
International Children’s Bible (ICB)?
International Standard Version (ISV)?
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)?
Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)?
King James Version (KJV)?
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)?
Lexham English Bible (LEB)?
Living Bible (TLB)?
The Message (MSG)?
Modern English Version (MEV)?
Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)?
Names of God Bible (NOG)?
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)?
New American Standard Bible (NASB)?
New Century Version (NCV)?
New English Translation (NET)?
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)?
New International Version (NIV)?
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)?
New King James Version (NKJV)?
New Life Version (NLV)?
New Living Translation (NLT)?
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)?
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)?
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)?
Revised Standard Version (RSV)?
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)?
The Voice (VOICE)?
World English Bible (WEB)?
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)?
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)?
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)?

Q's version of course, that's the only "true" interpretation. Laughat

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-04-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(02-04-2015 05:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Well, it would help a lot if TTA members would either quote the Bible accurately, or not at all...

Which version?
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)?
American Standard Version (ASV)?
Amplified Bible (AMP)?
Aramaic Bible in Plain English?
BRG Bible (BRG)?
Common English Bible (CEB)?
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)?
Contemporary English Version (CEV)?
Darby Translation (DARBY)?
Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)?
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)?
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)?
English Standard Version (ESV)?
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)?
Expanded Bible (EXB)?
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)?
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)?
Good News Translation (GNT)?
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)?
International Children’s Bible (ICB)?
International Standard Version (ISV)?
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)?
Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)?
King James Version (KJV)?
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)?
Lexham English Bible (LEB)?
Living Bible (TLB)?
The Message (MSG)?
Modern English Version (MEV)?
Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)?
Names of God Bible (NOG)?
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)?
New American Standard Bible (NASB)?
New Century Version (NCV)?
New English Translation (NET)?
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)?
New International Version (NIV)?
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)?
New King James Version (NKJV)?
New Life Version (NLV)?
New Living Translation (NLT)?
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)?
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)?
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)?
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)?
Revised Standard Version (RSV)?
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)?
The Voice (VOICE)?
World English Bible (WEB)?
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)?
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)?
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)?

The fact that the doctrines come out the same in any or all of these Bibles demonstrates the veracity of the Bible. The fact that people care to translate these Bibles over and again and have them come out the same way...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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