A "gotcha" argument for Satan
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04-03-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(03-03-2015 04:30 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 04:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  C'mon GWG... you know that's not even remotely fair to say/ask that.

Trekkie: Hey, how come Anakin doesn't recognize C-3PO when he becomes Vader?

Warsie: Tough question. It's probably because his mind and his memories have been so damaged by the Dark Side that he can no longer remember good things.

Trekkie: WRONG! Anakin/Vader never existed. Prove it to me that he existed.

Warsie: But... you asked me about Star Wars...

Trekkie: PROVE ME WRONG!

I see your point....and it wasn't fair per se. But when someone posits stuff like "Satan blah blah blah" with ZERO evidence to prove the existence of Satan, it gets a derisive reply like "prove it". Of course it is impossible to prove or disprove, which is my point. Why posit that nonsense in the first place. Which is also why I countered with the great pumpkin theory.

I guess it is sort of like....if the thread was about.....bigfoot for example, and we are railing on the idiocy of the bigfoot theory, and someone chimes in with "well bigfoot hasn't been found because he lives in the 5th dimension"......and my reply would be as I roll my eyes...prove it, because it is an asinine faith claim to posit such..

A statement was made about Satan that was not a biblical statement but a canard, that Satan is now in Hell. According to the Bible, Satan accused Job... while appearing in Heaven.

I will not likely start every refutation with "The Bible says" so if you're unaware that Job is a book and person in the Bible, you likely will perform poorly with standards of proof for biblical truths, too. Sorry.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(03-03-2015 12:46 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Ever notice that the Christian visual interpretation of "Satan" is a remarkable likeness of the Greek god Pan?????

Like everything else in Christianity - it's derivative.

nuttin new....

Yes, I've noticed. There is no biblical image or description of Satan that is like Pan, rather, that Satan is a glorious angel of light.

Many of the things that TTA "accuses" of Christianity are canards that stem from the Roman church and other groups 1,600 years or more ago. Further, the Roman church began with Constantine three centuries after Christ. You can understand my consternation if I ask you what your ethnic group is and you say you are Chinese and I begin equating you personally with the excesses of the Ming dynasty.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 12:49 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(03-03-2015 04:30 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I see your point....and it wasn't fair per se. But when someone posits stuff like "Satan blah blah blah" with ZERO evidence to prove the existence of Satan, it gets a derisive reply like "prove it". Of course it is impossible to prove or disprove, which is my point. Why posit that nonsense in the first place. Which is also why I countered with the great pumpkin theory.

I guess it is sort of like....if the thread was about.....bigfoot for example, and we are railing on the idiocy of the bigfoot theory, and someone chimes in with "well bigfoot hasn't been found because he lives in the 5th dimension"......and my reply would be as I roll my eyes...prove it, because it is an asinine faith claim to posit such..

A statement was made about Satan that was not a biblical statement but a canard, that Satan is now in Hell. According to the Bible, Satan accused Job... while appearing in Heaven.

I will not likely start every refutation with "The Bible says" so if you're unaware that Job is a book and person in the Bible, you likely will perform poorly with standards of proof for biblical truths, too. Sorry.

Well, somebody needs to tell the nuns that Satan is not in hell. Because that's what they taught me.

Among many other things, what is wrong with Christianity is that no one agrees on what anything means.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-03-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 01:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 12:49 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  A statement was made about Satan that was not a biblical statement but a canard, that Satan is now in Hell. According to the Bible, Satan accused Job... while appearing in Heaven.

I will not likely start every refutation with "The Bible says" so if you're unaware that Job is a book and person in the Bible, you likely will perform poorly with standards of proof for biblical truths, too. Sorry.

Well, somebody needs to tell the nuns that Satan is not in hell. Because that's what they taught me.

Among many other things, what is wrong with Christianity is that no one agrees on what anything means.

No, what is wrong with nuns is they are in the Roman church, which was born and bred in Hell. The Bible has truth and the RCC is against--in many or most cases--the Bible!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 01:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, somebody needs to tell the nuns that Satan is not in hell. Because that's what they taught me.

Among many other things, what is wrong with Christianity is that no one agrees on what anything means.

No, what is wrong with nuns is they are in the Roman church, which was born and bred in Hell. The Bible has truth and the RCC is against--in many or most cases--the Bible!

Funny. I thought that the RCs were the ones who decided what books would make up the bible. It hardly seems likely that they would be against their own creation.
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04-03-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 01:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, somebody needs to tell the nuns that Satan is not in hell. Because that's what they taught me.

Among many other things, what is wrong with Christianity is that no one agrees on what anything means.

No, what is wrong with nuns is they are in the Roman church, which was born and bred in Hell. The Bible has truth and the RCC is against--in many or most cases--the Bible!

Look at Q, pretending to know hat a true Christian is again, bless your heart.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 01:34 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, what is wrong with nuns is they are in the Roman church, which was born and bred in Hell. The Bible has truth and the RCC is against--in many or most cases--the Bible!

Funny. I thought that the RCs were the ones who decided what books would make up the bible. It hardly seems likely that they would be against their own creation.

Way back when, not so much. Later, it became punishable by death to own a Bible, translate the Bible, publicly read from the Bible.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 02:59 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 01:50 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, what is wrong with nuns is they are in the Roman church, which was born and bred in Hell. The Bible has truth and the RCC is against--in many or most cases--the Bible!

Look at Q, pretending to know hat a true Christian is again, bless your heart.

I'm speaking of the official leadership of the RCC, not individual adherents. There are many saved Roman Catholics who are therefore true Christians. Also, you are indiscriminate in applying the NTS fallacy to my dissension against false doctrine. YOU are not a Christian and we frequently disagree on what the Bible is teaching. So in your case, we both agree you are not a true Christian but I think you're also incorrect in doctrine.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
A few things:

1. The whole "Roman Catholics created the Bible" argument is a bit muddy. When the Canon was defined, they were just Christians. The division between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and Protestant hadn't happened yet. Roman Catholics like to claim that they are the one and only true organic development of early Christianity, and everyone else is a heretic. Eastern Orthodox Christians will make the same claim. Protestants will say no, you've both drifted far far away from the true spirit of early Christianity, and we are the ones who have returned to that tradition. Good luck sorting out the competing claims.

2. Catholics have never been "anti-Bible". The Bible is their main source of doctrine, just as it is for all other Christians. The difference is that they also admit "tradition" as a source of doctrine, so it's not just the Bible (sola scriptura). The claim is that "tradition" ended with the death of the last Apostle, so that all current Catholic dogma has its source in the Bible and/or the teachings of the Apostles. In truth, they have continuously developed and redefined "tradition" all along, and are still doing so today, and much of it has nothing to do with the Bible or the Apostles. This is part of what people like Q object to.

3. What the Catholic Church does object to is people reading the Bible on their own and interpreting it as they see fit (which is basically what Protestants do). The Bible is a very complicated, ambiguous book, and it's full of contradictions. No matter what anyone says, there is no one correct interpretation. But the Catholics like to pretend that there is, and that the Church and only the Church is capable of deciding what that correct interpretation is. So the Catholic layman can read the Bible, but he or she is bound to accept the official interpretation of it as promulgated by the Church. This is another thing that people like Q object to.

4. Protestants believe that the truth is there in the Bible for everyone to see, and that every man is capable of reading it and seeing it. You don't need anyone else to interpret it for you. Of course the result of that is hundreds (if not thousands) of distinct Protestant denominations with hundreds (if not thousands) of distinct interpretations of the Bible. Clearly, this doesn't work. If there is a single correct interpretation, no two denominations can agree on what it is.

It should be clear to an unbiased observer that they're all blowing smoke. Read the Bible for entertainment if you like, but stop pretending that it contains some sort of ultimate truth (and, the ultimate arrogance, that you and only you know what that truth is!).
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04-03-2015, 04:35 PM
RE: A "gotcha" argument for Satan
(04-03-2015 02:58 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 01:34 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Funny. I thought that the RCs were the ones who decided what books would make up the bible. It hardly seems likely that they would be against their own creation.

Way back when, not so much. Later, it became punishable by death to own a Bible, translate the Bible, publicly read from the Bible.

A great way to prevent serfs from realizing it's all bullshit I suppose...
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