A logical proof that christianity is absurd
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23-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Wink A logical proof that christianity is absurd
Proof God cannot exist.

This is a revision and refinement of a post I made over a year ago but there are so many new members now that I felt it worth a revisit.

Omniscience vs. Human Free will. A Paradox.

Omniscience: Perfect knowledge of past and future events.Free will: Freedom to choose between alternatives without external coercion.Paradox: Statements or events that have contradictory and inconsistent properties.

Proposal:

Christianity cannot claim that God is omniscient and also claim that humans have free will. The claims form a paradox, a falsehood.

Reasoning:

If God is omniscient then even before we are born God will have complete knowledge of every decision we are going to make.

Any apparent choice we make regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior is predetermined. This must be true to satisfy the assertion that God is omniscient. Effectively we have no choice in the matter. What we think is free will is an illusion. Our choices have been coerced since we exist and act according to the will of God.

Alternatively if human free will is valid, meaning that the outcome of our decisions is not pre-determined or coerced, then God cannot be omniscient, since he would not know in advance our decisions.

Question:

If God knows the decision of every individual, before they are born, regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior, then why does he create one set of individuals destined for heaven and another set destined for eternal damnation? This seems unjust, perverse and particularly evil.

Conclusions:

If God is omniscient then humans do not have free will (see argument above) and the apparent arbitrary choice of God to condemn many individuals to eternal damnation is evil. I.e. God does not possess the property of omni benevolence and is therefore not worth our attention.

If humans have true free will then God cannot be omniscient (see argument above). If he is not omniscient then he also cannot be omnipotent since knowledge of the future is a prerequisite for total action. Without these abilities God can no longer be deemed a god – i.e. God does not exist.

If humans do not have free will then the choice of whether to choose Jesus as a savior or not makes total nonsense of Christianity since the choice is pre-determined and we are merely puppets at the hands of an evil monster.
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23-04-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
The theist response is that God gave free will so he has to allow humans to do bad things to each other. This is the "best" of all possible worlds even though there is suffering.
This does not account for natural disasters, childhood cancer, children starving to death. etc. There is no human free will to be protected in this.

Three possibilities:
1 - God cannot control nature or human being's actions. How would you know this?
2 - God is an asshole and doesn't care if children get cancer. Appears to be true, but only if the existence of God can be proven.
3 - There is no God and it was all just made up by people.

I think we have a clear winner based on rational thought.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-04-2012, 07:40 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
"Free will" is an absurd concept, "omniscience" is an absurd concept, and this is an absurd argument. You're bringing down the quality of the forum. Tongue

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24-04-2012, 07:37 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
Yep.

God is omniscient. God is not omnibenevolent (I still don't know where this misconception comes from. Can anyone answer this?)

Everything is predetermined - including salvation and damnation.

This is called Calvinism.

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24-04-2012, 10:49 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 07:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yep.

God is omniscient. God is not omnibenevolent (I still don't know where this misconception comes from. Can anyone answer this?)

Everything is predetermined - including salvation and damnation.

This is called Calvinism.

I now know what calvinism is. Very interesting. But doesn't that not make everything absolutely pointless?
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24-04-2012, 11:02 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
Eh, I still favor the logical inconsistencies with omnipotence...

If god is omnipotent, can god create a rock which heshe cannot destroy?

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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24-04-2012, 11:08 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 11:02 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Eh, I still favor the logical inconsistencies with omnipotence...

If god is omnipotent, can god create a rock which heshe cannot destroy?
Ahhh, the good ole God-Rock paradox.

The answer is that it is an unanswerable question.

Infinite cannot become finite - even for a brief moment. If it does, it was never infinite and can never return to being infinite.

The question simply cannot be.

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24-04-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 11:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 11:02 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Eh, I still favor the logical inconsistencies with omnipotence...

If god is omnipotent, can god create a rock which heshe cannot destroy?
Ahhh, the good ole God-Rock paradox.

The answer is that it is an unanswerable question.

Infinite cannot become finite - even for a brief moment. If it does, it was never infinite and can never return to being infinite.

The question simply cannot be.
Actually, Infinite can become finite if done so forcibly whether by intervention or malfunction.

Crude example:

I buildz me a robot that barks like a doggiez fo'eva.

Troll Egor comez and Hulk smashez my barking robot.

My infinite barking robotz is no mo and me sadface :'(

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

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24-04-2012, 11:28 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 11:24 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 11:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Ahhh, the good ole God-Rock paradox.

The answer is that it is an unanswerable question.

Infinite cannot become finite - even for a brief moment. If it does, it was never infinite and can never return to being infinite.

The question simply cannot be.
Actually, Infinite can become finite if done so forcibly whether by intervention or malfunction.

Crude example:

I buildz me a robot that barks like a doggiez fo'eva.

Troll Egor comez and Hulk smashez my barking robot.

My infinite barking robotz is no mo and me sadface :'(
Your dog wasn't infinite. It's bark was never ending. You can't be infinite if a part of you is finite... obviously, your dog was finite or else he wouldn't have been crushed.

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24-04-2012, 11:29 AM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
I couldn't read the whole OP because I got hung up on a new member's first post saying this:

Quote:This is a revision and refinement of a post I made over a year ago but
there are so many new members now that I felt it worth a revisit.
Huh Huh Huh

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