A logical proof that christianity is absurd
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-04-2012, 01:47 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 01:38 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  That is the question that theists who believe in predestination can not answer satisfactorily. Why punish people for making a decision that they have been created to make? It is unjust and horrific.
Because humanity is secondary to Christ and His purpose. We only exist for His purpose. Christ doesn't exist for us (ie our salvation).

In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.

It's only horrific and cruel according to human perception and morality. God is morally autonomous. His morality is not our morality.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:38 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  That is the question that theists who believe in predestination can not answer satisfactorily. Why punish people for making a decision that they have been created to make? It is unjust and horrific.
Because humanity is secondary to Christ and His purpose. We only exist for His purpose. Christ doesn't exist for us (ie our salvation).

In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.

It's only horrific and cruel according to human perception and morality. God is morally autonomous. His morality is not our morality.


And that is why I couldn't worship such a being. According to that, He has no actual consideration for His own creation. His only consideration is for Christ. Everyone else involved is incidental. The damned are casualties of doing business, nothing more- and He created them to be so. This is horrendous in our eyes. But according to this theology, it's not horrendous- it's simply necessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:04 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.
Your argument is dreadfully circular.



Willing infliction of pain, suffering, torture and death matters and is inexcusable. I'm sure the victims of the genocide in Rwanda didn't look at the situation as a simple difference in moral viewpoints with their killers. Changing the offender's identity to "god" does not relieve him of the crime, nor make it justifiable.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 01:58 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Because humanity is secondary to Christ and His purpose. We only exist for His purpose. Christ doesn't exist for us (ie our salvation).

In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.

It's only horrific and cruel according to human perception and morality. God is morally autonomous. His morality is not our morality.


And that is why I couldn't worship such a being. According to that, He has no actual consideration for His own creation. His only consideration is for Christ. Everyone else involved is incidental. The damned are casualties of doing business, nothing more- and He created them to be so. This is horrendous in our eyes. But according to this theology, it's not horrendous- it's simply necessary.
Close, but now, you also have to consider is unbelievable love for the elect. He does love the elect as He loves Christ, and the consideration is also for us.

Looking back at that, it sounds confusing. But, I'm hoping you get it. If not, let me know.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:07 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:04 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.
Your argument is dreadfully circular.

Willing infliction of pain, suffering, torture and death matters and is inexcusable. I'm sure the victims of the genocide in Rwanda didn't look at the situation as a simple difference in moral viewpoints with their killers. Changing the offender's identity to "god" does not relieve him of the crime, nor make it justifiable.

I'm missing how it's circular. Can you clarify? Blush
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:08 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:04 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.
Your argument is dreadfully circular.



Willing infliction of pain, suffering, torture and death matters and is inexcusable. I'm sure the victims of the genocide in Rwanda didn't look at the situation as a simple difference in moral viewpoints with their killers. Changing the offender's identity to "god" does not relieve him of the crime, nor make it justifiable.
But, if God is truly the 3 omnis, it does.

The killers in Rwanda weren't omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:06 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Close, but now, you also have to consider is unbelievable love for the elect. He does love the elect as He loves Christ, and the consideration is also for us.

Looking back at that, it sounds confusing. But, I'm hoping you get it. If not, let me know.

So then He has partial consideration for His creation?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:13 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:09 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 02:06 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Close, but now, you also have to consider is unbelievable love for the elect. He does love the elect as He loves Christ, and the consideration is also for us.

Looking back at that, it sounds confusing. But, I'm hoping you get it. If not, let me know.

So then He has partial consideration for His creation?
Only because they are elect... He had consideration for them from the beginning of time because He is omniscient - He always knew He was going to elect them for salvation.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  But, if God is truly the 3 omnis, it does.



The killers in Rwanda weren't omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
My argument is that it doesn't matter if someone is the 3 omni's, it is not a justification for abuse. It is simply an excuse, and a horrible one.

(24-04-2012 02:07 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm missing how it's circular. Can you clarify? Blush
His argument is circular because the claim is made on grounds that cannot be accepted as true. How can there be those who are damned for their sin when Christ's purpose was to counter sin? Christ's purpose was to save people from sin, but people are still damned.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:20 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 02:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  But, if God is truly the 3 omnis, it does.



The killers in Rwanda weren't omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
My argument is that it doesn't matter if someone is the 3 omni's, it is not a justification for abuse. It is simply an excuse, and a horrible one.

Yes it does. If a being is truly the 3 omnis then everything He does is perfect. I'm not sure you're grasping what it really means to be the 3 omnis. I mean, if God is really perfect in every way, then His actions cannot be contested.

Quote:
(24-04-2012 02:07 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm missing how it's circular. Can you clarify? Blush
His argument is circular because the claim is made on grounds that cannot be accepted as true. How can there be those who are damned for their sin when Christ's purpose was to counter sin? Christ's purpose was to save people from sin, but people are still damned.

Good point. But as a Calvinist, I say that Christ's sacrifice wasn't for everyone. It's sufficient for everyone, but the atonement was only for the elect.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: