A logical proof that christianity is absurd
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24-04-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:20 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 02:07 PM)kineo Wrote:  I'm missing how it's circular. Can you clarify? Blush
His argument is circular because the claim is made on grounds that cannot be accepted as true. How can there be those who are damned for their sin when Christ's purpose was to counter sin? Christ's purpose was to save people from sin, but people are still damned.

Thanks- just wanted to keep followin' your argument.
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24-04-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
Ah, yes I forgot about the Calvanist outlook. Well I guess with that viewpoint, all you're really worried about are the chosen ones. And I think we are going to have to agree to disagree yet again, because I do not think that a perfect being can allow what we see in our world to exist and retain the claim of perfection. Where as you see it as perfect, just beyond our ability to perceive its perfection.

However, last words from me: Murder, rape, infanticide, genocide, child cancer... The perfect being sounds like a perfect douche. Tongue
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24-04-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 02:38 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  Ah, yes I forgot about the Calvanist outlook. Well I guess with that viewpoint, all you're really worried about are the chosen ones. And I think we are going to have to agree to disagree yet again, because I do not think that a perfect being can allow what we see in our world to exist and retain the claim of perfection. Where as you see it as perfect, just beyond our ability to perceive its perfection.

However, last words from me: Murder, rape, infanticide, genocide, child cancer... The perfect being sounds like a perfect douche. Tongue
Fair enough.

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24-04-2012, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 09:21 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 12:38 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  On the Christian side, the Bible only makes assertions that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. It also says that God has a plan for His own. This in no way shows omnibenevolence, but I can see where people get it from... I guess.

Simply put though, due to paradoxes, omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence cannot coexist with omnibenevolence based on the observation of humanity. God also shows that He is not omnibenevolent in scripture.

Back to the God-Rock paradox, I used "infinite" because it's an easy way of saying those three "omni" words that describe God. Basically, if God gives up His omnipotence to create a rock that He cannot lift, then He is not omnipotent and was never omnipotent. If He can't create a rock He cannot lift, then He isn't omnipotent and never was. That's why it's a paradox. The question simply cannot be because it "undefines" omnipotence.


Just to clarify. Couple things.

1. Surely, one of the reasons Christianity is absurd, is that it has almost NOTHING to do with the "Christ", and what Yeshua bar Josef, (one of the many itinerant apocalyptic preachers), who, .. (along with many others, came to be called a "son of god", and who came to be called the "christ"), talked about, and preached about. Originally the "christ" was a political leader who would restore the ancient, (unified), Kingdom of Israel, (Acts 1:1 "Wilt Thou Lord, at this time, restore the Kingdom to Israel ?" ... asked the Apostles, just before the Ascension), and THAT'S how the followers thought of him, that early on. The salvation paradigm was never talked about by him, or his followers, until Saul of Tarsus, (St. Paul), (for reasons that are debated), introduced it into the nascent religion, much to the consternation of the "Jerusalem camp" of the followers, (Yehuah's brother James's group). It's really Paulianity, when you've studied the history. He got the salvation notion, (or the need for it), from the Greek mystery cults, common in the Greek world at that time. Hebrew culture until that time, (including Yeshua), did not care about "sacrifice for sins", nor did they see any need for for it. The Jesus Seminar, http://www.westarinstitute.org/ , 150 PhD scripture scholars, does not agree that any of the sayings, which talk about "salvation", were actually said by Yeshua. The religion which people who call themselves "christian" actually practice, isn't really "christianity". It's Paulianity.

2. I'd be interesting in knowing, where, exactly you think the Bible says anything at all, specifically, about the God of the Armies, (the Lord of Hosts), .. better known as Yahweh Sabaoth, being described by any of the terms known as the 3 "O's", or has a "plan". Where does the Bible say those things ? Did Hebrew culture, before the introduction of the Arabic/Greek concept of "infinity" even know about that concept ? If you think they did, how do you know they even, EVER, thought in those terms, or it's opposite .. zero. http://www.nasa.gov/mov/178729main_075_k...ro_cap.mov If so, where, and how do we know that ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity#Early_Greek

http://archive.org/details/HistoricalJesus (Bart Ehrman audio series)

Yahweh : (and why he's absurd) ...





A history of Christianity :

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...ion/watch/

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-04-2012, 09:46 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 10:17 PM by San Onofre Surfer.)
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 03:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Yahweh : (and why he's absurd) ...

O....M....G. The nerdminster strikes again. What the 'h are the three "0's ?
Oakland, Oceanside, and Oxnard .. right.
God is digital, anyhow, and we are all digital holographic projections from programs running on the surface of the universe.
Marduk's gonna get you. Stop studying that Bible, and read something worthwhile, you dork. Tongue

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25-04-2012, 02:13 AM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2012 02:26 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: A logical proof that christianity is absurd
(24-04-2012 11:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 11:02 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Eh, I still favor the logical inconsistencies with omnipotence...

If god is omnipotent, can god create a rock which heshe cannot destroy?
Ahhh, the good ole God-Rock paradox.

The answer is that it is an unanswerable question.

Infinite cannot become finite - even for a brief moment. If it does, it was never infinite and can never return to being infinite.

The question simply cannot be.

Fucking Calvinist. The answer is anticipation. If the faithful believe the rock can be lifted, the rock gets lifted; if not then not. I know - your doctrine cannot handle simultaneity cause someone needs to burn in hell. Then there's pi, which becomes 3.1415 when you need to build something then goes back to being the sum of an infinite series. As usual, ya don't know what the fuck yer talking about. Tongue

Yeah, I woke on the asshole side of the couch this morning. Big Grin
(24-04-2012 01:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:38 PM)arbmouser Wrote:  That is the question that theists who believe in predestination can not answer satisfactorily. Why punish people for making a decision that they have been created to make? It is unjust and horrific.
Because humanity is secondary to Christ and His purpose. We only exist for His purpose. Christ doesn't exist for us (ie our salvation).

In order for Christ's purpose to be fulfilled there needed to be sin. Because there was sin, there had to be damnation. Because there is damnation, there had to be those that are damned.

It's only horrific and cruel according to human perception and morality. God is morally autonomous. His morality is not our morality.

Which of course is moral relativism. And this other stuff - if I didn't know you, I'd hafta get mad. Tongue

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