A mass murderer with good intentions
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29-04-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 03:19 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I understood what you were going for it's just Hawking and people like him make the cost > Benefit. This is the Josef Mengele argument. Without Mengele the science of human medicine is set back at least 50 years. Does the fact that he saved a factor of at least 1000 to 1 people vs those he tortured and killed though his "research" make him anything other than a monster.

The answer is no he was a true monster. The worst example of what twisted evil science looks like. The fact that his evil led to some good does not remove the evil.

Do you know of any examples of valuable knowledge we have as a result of Mengele's experimentation? I tend toward not believing that assertion but I'm not really well educated on it so if you have something you can share, I'd appreciate it.

Also... this is the argument from morality that I use against statism. Wink

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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29-04-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 03:19 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Without Mengele the science of human medicine is set back at least 50 years.
Do you care to support this claim with citations?

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29-04-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 09:15 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 03:19 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Without Mengele the science of human medicine is set back at least 50 years.
Do you care to support this claim with citations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...n-medicine

I remember seeing a book about this at one point but I can't recall the title. In any case I was just stating the argument not claiming to agree with it. At the very least he did perform experiments (of varying degrees of scientific value or method) that are non-repeatable Again let me point out that this is probably the worst figure from the entire Nazi regime Hitler gets all the press but this guy was pure evil.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-04-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 02:33 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  You are all missing the point that it's Hitler and Hitler type people. This isn't a proposition that the forum band together and start murdering people. It's a "what if someone wiped out 5 million people, but cured cancer in the process" question.

You people are no fun.

I'm all like

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and you're all like

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LOL you are funny Buddy! I do say, I look good with a pipe. Thumbsup

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29-04-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 09:36 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...n-medicine

I remember seeing a book about this at one point but I can't recall the title. In any case I was just stating the argument not claiming to agree with it. At the very least he did perform experiments (of varying degrees of scientific value or method) that are non-repeatable Again let me point out that this is probably the worst figure from the entire Nazi regime Hitler gets all the press but this guy was pure evil.
Neither of those sources support the proposition that the field of medicine would be set back by 50 years were it not for Mengele's experiments.

I acknowledge that his research did have some influence on modern medicine, but the aforementioned figures are vastly exaggerated.

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29-04-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
(29-04-2013 02:19 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(29-04-2013 09:36 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questi...n-medicine

I remember seeing a book about this at one point but I can't recall the title. In any case I was just stating the argument not claiming to agree with it. At the very least he did perform experiments (of varying degrees of scientific value or method) that are non-repeatable Again let me point out that this is probably the worst figure from the entire Nazi regime Hitler gets all the press but this guy was pure evil.
Neither of those sources support the proposition that the field of medicine would be set back by 50 years were it not for Mengele's experiments.

I acknowledge that his research did have some influence on modern medicine, but the aforementioned figures are vastly exaggerated.

That is entirely possible. As I said I wasn't proposing such an argument merely saying that was more or less what the OP was suggesting with his thought experiment.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-04-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
IF indeed we got something positive from Mengele's experiments/torchers then the only acceptable reaction to finding out that fact would be, "well...at least there's that". It should NEVER be considered in proposing some future act, or used as an excuse for implementing one somebody's allready thought up!!!

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29-04-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
Ah, the lives of the many outweigh the lives of the few. We can do what we like to anyone, regardless of protest, as long as more people could "benefit" from it?

Ah, thank you. OPs healthy organs can be sure to save a dozen people at least. Why allow ONE person to survive, when DOZENS could be saved?

Now, hold till and stop squirming- Bangin
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29-04-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: A mass murderer with good intentions
First, let me say that killing people because they are ill and the cause is genetic is wrong, even if it is to wipe out diseases.

Secondly, I do tend to follow the "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

But, I have a consent clause in there, unless we are dealing with murderous peices of shit.

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