A massive step forward for the US
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24-10-2011, 04:39 PM
RE: A massive step forward for the US
(23-10-2011 10:50 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(19-10-2011 01:19 PM)cconti Wrote:  Born and raised in Italy, I was baptized catholic. Heck, I was baptized in St. peter in Rome (not by the Pope though. He was busy that day).

Growing up, the adults all made jokes about their local priest and the altar boys. It was basically a cliche.

It makes me wonder why people would make jokes about this sort of behavior and not be serious enough to speak up. Traditional humor usually rises from some underlying of truth. Maybe they can't take it seriously because they know it's a dead end. Maybe joking about it eases the pain of knowing it is real or maybe it lessens the pain of real victims.

I also wonder if Italian preists know they are being made fun of?

I would assume they do. They tend to live in a bubble, but they have ears. Plus is so ingrained in the culture that I would find it preposterous they were not aware of the allegations.

As far as taking action instead of cracking jokes? It would be nice, but Italians already have an issue with institutions, the church is one of those entities that would make going against "City Hall" look like a walk in the park. Plus there is the influence of the women and peer pressure.

For the victims we know from press reports how hard their ordeal has been. I'd argue that coming out at a tender age against the church, with parents and peers at least aware of the allegation would have been social suicide.

Since these monsters didn't do it on the altar in full view of the congregation it would have been a "he says, he says" situation with a child on one side and a very expert, socially powerful molester on the other.

I am sure the molesters counted on that to remain unpunished.
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25-10-2011, 11:15 AM
RE: A massive step forward for the US
Kim... I just read that banishment order again and it made me weep for the joy that comes when justice prevails against evil. This is no little thing. It is a step I wish to see all over the world against these perpetrators of pain. It makes me glad to have native American blood. Why no one in this forum has recognized the significance of it is beyond my understanding.

Ah hane he yo heyo.. ah hane he yo heyae yo heyo..

...a prayer (to the earth) for peace and the healing of wounds

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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25-10-2011, 11:25 AM
RE: A massive step forward for the US
Just read Kims' Post. Definitely intriguing. Kind of wish I had me some native blood so I could bask in the glory that the media doesn't bother to cover.

To answer Defacto as to why no one else is bothering with such tactics it's because of numerous factors. One is Natives celebrate their own belief structure to begin with, they were never happy to have the churches barging their way in. They have an almost insulated culture due to being mostly sequestered on native land. Like you said, they operate like a sovereign state. Nothing else is like that. That I'm aware of anyways. Because of the fact that they have their own belief structure and the fact that while on their own land they can deny anyone the right to live and preach they can accomplish such a deed.
We couldn't do that as our laws protect the catholic church from banishment. Not to mention they hold a large portion of the voting public. They have none of those things while on native land.
What we do have though, that I would like to see used, is laws that determine what a criminal organization is, and what we can do with them. The states have even more laws regarding this (especially having to do with international criminals) that they never use when religious bodies are concerned. By definition of these laws, the catholic church (as do all christian churches) falls into this category. They are organized crime. Their delegates should be arrested on site.

I think however that as nice and even legal as that would be, it's a gonna be a long time before anything like that happens.

On a lighter note I'm eating cereal right out of the box right now for no reason. I don't even like it.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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25-10-2011, 11:37 AM
RE: A massive step forward for the US

I know you are right. My statement was a wish. But just the fact that someone, some system has the balls to do something is elating to me. The native people have been inundated by Catholics (and a few others) for centuries. Because native peoples are now autonomous, they can do the things all people aught to be able to do. The outside world is in bondage. Natives are now the free people.

Whether you are native or not, all people should be applauding their action. It is righteous. take lessons from the native people the idea of freedom, look to the future and make plans and actions accordingly.


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27-10-2011, 07:22 AM
RE: A massive step forward for the US
This is just so cool!

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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