A message from Seth
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08-07-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Well, now that we have a clear mission statement, it would be an easy thing to create an "off topic" section, since we have topics defined.

Trolls are almost always off topic. So they would automatically go there. They will still get plenty of folk reading and responding, but they wouldn't be plastered all over the entire forum.

That would put an end to the call for bans I think, and I think it's a perfectly good compromise. Free speech preserved, irritation removed.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-07-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 10:06 AM)Dom Wrote:  You can still debate pedo stuff - from a scientific, statistical and factual point of view. What can not happen is having a bunch of pedos post to justify themselves.

No you cannot, all paedophilia threads are prohibited. Threads condemning an incident of child-molestation are allowed. Threads looking for support from someone who was abused are allowed. They are the only two exceptions.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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08-07-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:23 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, now that we have a clear mission statement, it would be an easy thing to create an "off topic" section, since we have topics defined.

Trolls are almost always off topic. So they would automatically go there. They will still get plenty of folk reading and responding, but they wouldn't be plastered all over the entire forum.

That would put an end to the call for bans I think, and I think it's a perfectly good compromise. Free speech preserved, irritation removed.

That would be true if we could identify trolls. I saw Egor be accused of trolling for the longest time, I&I still is, you yourself accused FZU of trolling. This is evidence that people cannot reliably differentiate between trolls and unpopular people.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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08-07-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:31 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:23 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, now that we have a clear mission statement, it would be an easy thing to create an "off topic" section, since we have topics defined.

Trolls are almost always off topic. So they would automatically go there. They will still get plenty of folk reading and responding, but they wouldn't be plastered all over the entire forum.

That would put an end to the call for bans I think, and I think it's a perfectly good compromise. Free speech preserved, irritation removed.

That would be true if we could identify trolls. I saw Egor be accused of trolling for the longest time, I&I still is, you yourself accused FZU of trolling. This is evidence that people cannot reliably differentiate between trolls and unpopular people.

I didn't say we could identify trolls. I said we can identify off-topic threads, and by coincidence I think that would include most trolls.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-07-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I didn't say we could identify trolls. I said we can identify off-topic threads, and by coincidence I think that would include most trolls.

Most things here fit in one section or another, and we already have TTOT for stuff that doesn't.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 11:40 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:35 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I didn't say we could identify trolls. I said we can identify off-topic threads, and by coincidence I think that would include most trolls.

Most things here fit in one section or another, and we already have TTOT for stuff that doesn't.

Well, the most frequent complaints I recall seem to be when some topic is plastered all over the place when it has nothing to do with anything that is now described in our mission. The other frequent complaint seems to have been about people who continuously attack others.

Maybe we can set about rationally identifying the REAL causes of the issues we have and then deal with that, rather than go into a drama all the time or start waving the ban card.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-07-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: A message from Seth
People attack people they disagree with on any given subject. I've had spats with Phaedrus over guns that have not translated into attacks on other issues. It's all how the people in question deal with it. Making more and more sections and subforums to try and avert it only leads to headache IMO.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
08-07-2013, 11:50 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, the most frequent complaints I recall seem to be when some topic is plastered all over the place when it has nothing to do with anything that is now described in our mission. The other frequent complaint seems to have been about people who continuously attack others.

Maybe we can set about rationally identifying the REAL causes of the issues we have and then deal with that, rather than go into a drama all the time or start waving the ban card.

A topic is never plastered everywhere, one thread existing on a topic someone has an issue with is not plastering it everywhere. Plastering something everywhere is spam, and people have been banned for it.

We could do things as other forums do. Moderators subjectively decide things case-by-case. If people they complain about something they are given a yes/no answer and if they pursue it they are banned. Anyone who is deemed "undesirable" is also banned.

However, the day TTA turns into that it won't be me doing it. I will not silence my dissenters, nor will I silence "undesirables". I also have no interest in enforcing subjective rules.

There is the other alternative. As James said frequently, this forum isn't for everyone. There are several atheist forums that are more restrictive in what people can post, and then one very liberal one. The rational thing would seem if people who want a place with more restrictions chose one of those other forums instead of trying to change the only liberal one. I'm not holding my breath on that though.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
[+] 2 users Like Hughsie's post
08-07-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: A message from Seth
It is so good to see that everyone is ready to get back to the give and take of the forum with good humor and no passive-aggressive residual behavior. It is so helpful that Seth came and outlined what he wants and everyone is willing to go with his wishes, according their own interpretation of course.

Like a breath of fresh air knowing that the very person that had a huge part of starting all this is able to read and watch us heal.

Damn straight!

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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08-07-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 11:50 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 11:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, the most frequent complaints I recall seem to be when some topic is plastered all over the place when it has nothing to do with anything that is now described in our mission. The other frequent complaint seems to have been about people who continuously attack others.

Maybe we can set about rationally identifying the REAL causes of the issues we have and then deal with that, rather than go into a drama all the time or start waving the ban card.

A topic is never plastered everywhere, one thread existing on a topic someone has an issue with is not plastering it everywhere. Plastering something everywhere is spam, and people have been banned for it.

We could do things as other forums do. Moderators subjectively decide things case-by-case. If people they complain about something they are given a yes/no answer and if they pursue it they are banned. Anyone who is deemed "undesirable" is also banned.

However, the day TTA turns into that it won't be me doing it. I will not silence my dissenters, nor will I silence "undesirables". I also have no interest in enforcing subjective rules.

There is the other alternative. As James said frequently, this forum isn't for everyone. There are several atheist forums that are more restrictive in what people can post, and then one very liberal one. The rational thing would seem if people who want a place with more restrictions chose one of those other forums instead of trying to change the only liberal one. I'm not holding my breath on that though.

There you go with the banning again. Dunno why you keep falling back on that when no one wants it. You have some sort of banophobia dominating your brain. Can you try to be creative and abandon the word ban in your thoughts?

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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