A message from Seth
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-07-2013, 02:00 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 01:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But if we moderate as atheists in favor of atheists, then no theists would stick around for a conversation at all. No

And more moderation still means more moderation. I've seen them remove posts from threads on that site over language used by other theists, including banning a theist for starting a thread discussing doubts. Making a lot of rules and subforums with their own rules, and subforums where only people of a particular category can post, does 1 of 2 things well. It either gives plausible reason for removing content deemed inappropriate to the discussion (which is subjective in nearly all cases) or discourages honest discussion since some people will avoid posting since they know it will just get removed. Leaving a big circle-jerk community.

Pedophilia is illegal and discussing it necessarily means that at some point somewhere along the way, someone is going to make a dick statement. In a discussion on nearly any other topic, I'd just say to grow a thicker skin. But this is not so trivial a topic...

What makes you think there is no such thing as mild moderation? Intelligent moderation? Why would it have to equal a lion set free in a room of puppies?

I think mild moderation/intelligent moderation is what we have here. It means not taking every spat and moderating it. It means not moving every thread to appease someone. It means making a judgement call as to when someone crossed a line. It means not trying to appease everyone.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 01:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But if we moderate as atheists in favor of atheists, then no theists would stick around for a conversation at all. No

I think we have proven that we are impartial to what creed our administration is. Right, Kingschosen?

(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And more moderation still means more moderation. I've seen them remove posts from threads on that site over language used by other theists, including banning a theist for starting a thread discussing doubts. Making a lot of rules and subforums with their own rules, and subforums where only people of a particular category can post, does 1 of 2 things well. It either gives plausible reason for removing content deemed inappropriate to the discussion (which is subjective in nearly all cases) or discourages honest discussion since some people will avoid posting since they know it will just get removed. Leaving a big circle-jerk community.

I am not arguing for the creation of more sub forums or strict rules concerning the content of threads. I simply made an observation, which I think I am entitled to sharing since I've been on that forum for three years.

(08-07-2013 01:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Pedophilia is illegal and discussing it necessarily means that at some point somewhere along the way, someone is going to make a dick statement. In a discussion on nearly any other topic, I'd just say to grow a thicker skin. But this is not so trivial a topic...

Same here, which is why I have not made any formal complaints about the content of any thread.

What I am trying to say in non-specific terms is that if people want moderators to be more "hands-on" then more people are going to have their toes stepped on. And that means that there will be abuse of that system too. Only that system will impact more people.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 01:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I think we have proven that we are impartial to what creed our administration is. Right, Kingschosen?


I am not arguing for the creation of more sub forums or strict rules concerning the content of threads. I simply made an observation, which I think I am entitled to sharing since I've been on that forum for three years.


Same here, which is why I have not made any formal complaints about the content of any thread.

What I am trying to say in non-specific terms is that if people want moderators to be more "hands-on" then more people are going to have their toes stepped on. And that means that there will be abuse of that system too. Only that system will impact more people.

And nowhere have I denied what you said. I simply said I was relatively comfortable with Christian Forums, with the exception of a few things.

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:05 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 02:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What I am trying to say in non-specific terms is that if people want moderators to be more "hands-on" then more people are going to have their toes stepped on. And that means that there will be abuse of that system too. Only that system will impact more people.

And nowhere have I denied what you said. I simply said I was relatively comfortable with Christian Forums, with the exception of a few things.

And I'm happy with TTA, minus a few people. Thumbsup

I think this was the idea others have tried to get across. There are other atheists forums with more moderation than this one. If that is what people want, that is where they should go, but I'd say they should come back here too.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 02:05 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  And nowhere have I denied what you said. I simply said I was relatively comfortable with Christian Forums, with the exception of a few things.

And I'm happy with TTA, minus a few people. Thumbsup

I think this was the idea others have tried to get across. There are other atheists forums with more moderation than this one. If that is what people want, that is where they should go, but I'd say they should come back here too.

Me too! And while I think a few additions to the "block" feature would be nice, I am quite happy with my abilities to ignore what I want.

To preface what I am about to say here, I am not directing the following toward any specific individual or forum team (as it seems moderators change position every fucking menstrual period). I see nothing wrong in being harsher on people who present nothing to the forum being banned. I am also in favor of kicking IandI either to the conspiracy theory area or off the forum entirely, since it seems his posting sprees continue unabated. My beef, however, is generally more towards how the administration handles it. I have found that, often times, the forum team will gang up and attack a person with a complaint. I would have thought it would be suffice to say, "He hasn't done anything against the rules", and leave it at that. For some reason, however, they decide to make it a personal argument. Immature.

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Logica Humano's post
08-07-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: A message from Seth
I'd simply say this in reply, it is a point made by Hitch in a debate you can find on youtube about free speech.

If there are 100 people in a room discussing a topic and 99 of them agree on a conclusion, the opinion of that one person instantly becomes more important and must be listened to. Even if they are objectively and demonstrably wrong, they have to be listened to. And not because some law or rule says so, but because you will never find fault in your own opinion or argument if you don't at least hear them out.

In that sense, I & I is great for the forum. He is that one guy in every discussion I have seen. Doesn't mean I respect him or his opinion in the slightest though, but I have learned a lot from him. Mainly about how strong the opinions in opposition to his are.

(08-07-2013 02:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 02:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And I'm happy with TTA, minus a few people. Thumbsup

I think this was the idea others have tried to get across. There are other atheists forums with more moderation than this one. If that is what people want, that is where they should go, but I'd say they should come back here too.

Me too! And while I think a few additions to the "block" feature would be nice, I am quite happy with my abilities to ignore what I want.

To preface what I am about to say here, I am not directing the following toward any specific individual or forum team (as it seems moderators change position every fucking menstrual period). I see nothing wrong in being harsher on people who present nothing to the forum being banned. I am also in favor of kicking IandI either to the conspiracy theory area or off the forum entirely, since it seems his posting sprees continue unabated. My beef, however, is generally more towards how the administration handles it. I have found that, often times, the forum team will gang up and attack a person with a complaint. I would have thought it would be suffice to say, "He hasn't done anything against the rules", and leave it at that. For some reason, however, they decide to make it a personal argument. Immature.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
08-07-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 07:32 AM)Editor-TheThinkingAtheist Wrote:  Good morning.

I'm amazed at the diatribes of the "free speech" crowd. This happens on Facebook on any (extremely rare) occasion that I have to remove a troll, evangelist or conversation thread that is causing more disruptions than is necessary or healthy for the community as a whole. Wounded in pride, they claim moral high ground and wail, "MY FREE SPEECH HAS BEEN STRIPPED AWAY."

It's certainly a lofty claim, and I'm sure these people are enjoying the illusion of moral high ground. But it's only an illusion.

Since when has our private forum, a community for skeptics, been required to abide and/or entertain anything and everything that comes down the pipe? Some treat this sole decision as an indictment of all free expression in a vast, diverse and hugely free forum. Their knee-jerk reactions do an injustice to the community, and to the good work that Tim, Jay and Jeremy are doing every day in the admin position here.

There exist a lot of more qualified and more appropriate places for the discussions promoting (and I mean promoting) pedophilia. I simply won't allow the pro-pedophilia platform to be constructed on TTA. And if the issue comes up in another context, it can rightly be addressed and discussed as the destructive cancer that it is.

We can talk about pedophilia as a problem inside and outside of the church. We can provide support to the victims. And we will continue to do so. But again, I will not allow this forum to be used in any way to 1) argue the merits of pedophilia or to 2) disrupt the tempo of this community.

On the TTA forum, we have free speech. But we also have guidelines. Any adult can understand how the two concepts relate to each other. Even in the arena of the First Amendment, "free speech" doesn't allow someone to yell "fire" in a crowded theater just for kicks. There are boundaries in place for a reason.

When this is brought to light, it's often the children who stomp their feet in frothing protest at the notion of rules. I'm not too concerned about their feelings. I'm concerned about protecting this wonderful place and its users.

Onward. And thank you.

--
Seth Andrews
Host - The Thinking Atheist
YouTube Facebook Twitter BlogTalkRadio iTunes Stitcher

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I also understand that people disagree with me, and are happy that you can now just "avoid" the topic. However I find that the way you some guys acted to get what you wanted was childish, manipulative, and completely disgusting. The actions of many here left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and I honestly don't know if that is because Emotions are supposedly fucking king in this game, when I believe rationality should be, or because I got called a lot of things that others ended up being.

So, while everyone can breathe a sigh of relief over this issue, I am still left with the childish actions of the users involved, and that will definitely make me look and talk to them differently.

Also, I find it more than funny how people think I don't know that there is some semblance of free speech, however there is one thing you can't deny, it has been limited. We can no longer talk about an issue we could otherwise discuss, preferably in a civil manner (Dodgy ). We have denied ourselves the right to hear a perspective that makes us think, and while some of you may be OK with that, I find it unfortunate. I was learning something there, I learned that there was a difference, and it opened my eyes that people STRUGGLE with that.

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one that wanted to discuss on the merits of the OP, but again, its done, its over with, and there is no point to keep talking about this issue.

Carry on.

Well said, A2... well said.

You continually impress me.

People running to Seth to try and get their side validated definitely didn't sit well with me.

That is one of the biggest issues I have with this whole thing.

This would not have been as big of a deal and would not have blown up if people showed more self control over their emotions and their actions.

But... what's done is done.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
[+] 2 users Like kingschosen's post
08-07-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:56 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 02:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I also understand that people disagree with me, and are happy that you can now just "avoid" the topic. However I find that the way you some guys acted to get what you wanted was childish, manipulative, and completely disgusting. The actions of many here left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and I honestly don't know if that is because Emotions are supposedly fucking king in this game, when I believe rationality should be, or because I got called a lot of things that others ended up being.

So, while everyone can breathe a sigh of relief over this issue, I am still left with the childish actions of the users involved, and that will definitely make me look and talk to them differently.

Also, I find it more than funny how people think I don't know that there is some semblance of free speech, however there is one thing you can't deny, it has been limited. We can no longer talk about an issue we could otherwise discuss, preferably in a civil manner (Dodgy ). We have denied ourselves the right to hear a perspective that makes us think, and while some of you may be OK with that, I find it unfortunate. I was learning something there, I learned that there was a difference, and it opened my eyes that people STRUGGLE with that.

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one that wanted to discuss on the merits of the OP, but again, its done, its over with, and there is no point to keep talking about this issue.

Carry on.

Well said, A2... well said.

You continually impress me.

People running to Seth to try and get their side validated definitely didn't sit well with me.

That is one of the biggest issues I have with this whole thing.

This would not have been as big of a deal and would not have blown up if people showed more self control over their emotions and their actions.

But... what's done is done.

Unfortunately, there is no controlling PTS. If there was, people would do it in a heart beat, because PTS hurts like shit.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
08-07-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 02:17 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'd simply say this in reply, it is a point made by Hitch in a debate you can find on youtube about free speech.

If there are 100 people in a room discussing a topic and 99 of them agree on a conclusion, the opinion of that one person instantly becomes more important and must be listened to. Even if they are objectively and demonstrably wrong, they have to be listened to. And not because some law or rule says so, but because you will never find fault in your own opinion or argument if you don't at least hear them out.

In that sense, I & I is great for the forum. He is that one guy in every discussion I have seen. Doesn't mean I respect him or his opinion in the slightest though, but I have learned a lot from him. Mainly about how strong the opinions in opposition to his are.

It is not his opinions that bother me. It is his posting the same shit, sometimes even immediately after another, based on nothing but conspiracy theorist sources. Not only does he belong in the conspiracy theory thread, but he should learn to form a coherent argument in one or two sittings, as opposed to making steady, rapid streams of unsubstantiated theories.

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
[+] 2 users Like Logica Humano's post
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: