A message from Seth
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09-07-2013, 09:50 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Dodgy

See... I see it like this. Bear with me, this is my private classification scheme and musings which I here present for your... edification... amusement... enragement ? (Is that even a word ?)

There's Saints and there's Sinners.

Saints are all about free speech, egalitarian shit, you name it, it shits a rainbow, Saints want it.

Sinners are... well ya know, we just try to get by. We don't go for high falutin' shit too much. We make friends, if someone tries to make our friend feel bad we beat the living daylights outta them, we don't *care* about free speech and all that shit one whole helluva lot.

Basically Sinners are kinda ends-justify-the-means types.

You know, it's a terrible disability to suffer from.

And one of the things that kinda pisses off a Sinner is seeing a Saint gettin' all righteously indignant up in his ivory tower and throwing his toys. He's not any better than us, he's got no idea what it's like down here in the dirt, who the fuck is he to tell me what I should or should not be doing ?

And something that pisses of a Saint is seeing those Sinners grubbing around in the dirt, doing absolutely putrid horrible things to each other like trying to get people banned for exercising their right to free speech. Don't they fucking *understand* ??? They must do right ? Which means that they're *deliberately* trying to curtail people's freedoms and OH MY GOD etc etc.

Now see, I'm kinda letting go a bit here Tongue Can you see what I'm driving at though ? I've outed myself, I'm a Sinner. I don't honestly give too much of a terrible fuck about free speech. How odd. Unless it's mine Tongue Hypocrite huh ? But you can see I've tried to represent my understanding of what goes through the mind of a Saint as well...

The point of the whole post is... in simplistic terms, Saints and Sinners both exist on the forum and have to get along...

And it's not *that big of a deal*.
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09-07-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: A message from Seth
This wasn't just a matter of "tension on the forum." It was much more than that. People were getting hurt. For real.

It was the right call.

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09-07-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 09:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This wasn't just a matter of "tension on the forum." It was much more than that. People were getting hurt. For real.

It was the right call.

I was just about to say that. Abuse flashbacks aren't merely "tension".

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09-07-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 09:44 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 09:33 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm not disagreeing with censoring a thread on a topic like pedophilia, but the notion that any thread should be censored for creating some rift on the forum is a shitty excuse. I mean, how many threads have been started about I & I and whether or not to censor him or move his threads that have created tension on the forum?

I just don't think using the excuse of "creating tension on the forums" is a good one. Tension has been created over threads about guns and the holocaust and the like. Doesn't mean those threads should have been shut down.

I've pointed this out though. We all know that children tug on our emotional strings differently. Not only that, this wasn't a case of someone standing on the outside with an opinion on a subject. This involved people that were living with the subject their whole lives. This is why a rift was formed. Some viewed it as an opportunity to get an inside look at the disorder. For others, very unfortunately, memories they did not want we're resurrected.

The issue got even further out of hand when one of the subjects posted a very detailed story about someone in their support group. Then yet another said, in a hypothetical scenario, something that included the words "your daughter." In yet another instance, a picture of a baptized baby was posted and one of those afflicted subjects commented with I think something along the lines of "That's. wonderful picture."

We can't expect people to stay calm and collected with these things happening. It's an emotionally charged topic. Very unique as well because of the people that admitted to things.

I don't think there was a proper solution to this. But I think the decision Seth made was the lesser of the evils.

"The issue got even further out of hand when one of the subjects posted a very detailed story about someone in their support group. Then yet another said, in a hypothetical scenario, something that included the words "your daughter." In yet another instance, a picture of a baptized baby was posted and one of those afflicted subjects commented with I think something along the lines of "That's. wonderful picture.""

In each of these cases, it isn't about creating a rift or offending someone that should be grounds for censoring it. The forum outlines (or should or shortly will) that some subject matters are not appropriate for this forum and will be removed. I say that because removing the content will also create a rift in the forum (obviously), so how do you solve that issue if the point of removing it was to fix the rift?

There are far better reasons for removing that content than "people were getting their feelings hurt" or "it brought up bad memories."

Especially the latter point. What if a thread about something seemingly benign brings up bad memories or a bad experience for a person or persons on the forum? Should it be removed? What if it is a discussion on something like The Dark Knight Rises and it causes someone anguish? I'm not trying to be insensitive, but if a subject matter is likely to contain a discussion on something traumatic in your life, you should avoid it first and foremost.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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09-07-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 09:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This wasn't just a matter of "tension on the forum." It was much more than that. People were getting hurt. For real.

It was the right call.

People actually getting hurt by something is a genuine reason for removing content. But people keep throwing around this notion that if something creates a rift on the forum, then it is up for being removed. All I am saying is, there are a lot of subjects that will receive the same response and when they are not removed, people will get all up-in-arms again.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-07-2013, 10:07 AM
RE: A message from Seth
^^ And generally, admin will do this: Rolleyes and everything will be fine. Just occasionally though, and I think there have been incidents in the past where it would have been justified as well, the up-in-arms crowd have a point which needs addressing - *not* necessarily by something as all-encompassing as the response this time, but which does need addressing.

The precedent *I'm* worried about is this idea that if we can't sort something out Seth must come and save us. In general he doesn't participate in the forum and so his actions here are extremely likely to be seen as heavy handed. By some miracle this time he hit exactly the right note, but I'd be surprised if he managed that particular feat again.
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09-07-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 10:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 09:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This wasn't just a matter of "tension on the forum." It was much more than that. People were getting hurt. For real.

It was the right call.

People actually getting hurt by something is a genuine reason for removing content. But people keep throwing around this notion that if something creates a rift on the forum, then it is up for being removed. All I am saying is, there are a lot of subjects that will receive the same response and when they are not removed, people will get all up-in-arms again.

You are 100% correct. There's gonna be all kinds of bitching. But fortunately, our forum team will learn from this. There's always someone bitching about something. That will always be the case. But as leaders and custodians of the forum, the administrators have the unpleasant job of weeding through all the individual bitching, and finding the topics that truly need attention.

This topic took a while to get the attention it deserved, but in the end, the right decision was made, and the administration will improve as a result. This whole thing was a learning experience, and although it left some pretty serious damage in it's wake, I am confident we can all grow and learn from it.

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09-07-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 10:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  ^^ And generally, admin will do this: Rolleyes and everything will be fine. Just occasionally though, and I think there have been incidents in the past where it would have been justified as well, the up-in-arms crowd have a point which needs addressing - *not* necessarily by something as all-encompassing as the response this time, but which does need addressing.

The precedent *I'm* worried about is this idea that if we can't sort something out Seth must come and save us. In general he doesn't participate in the forum and so his actions here are extremely likely to be seen as heavy handed. By some miracle this time he hit exactly the right note, but I'd be surprised if he managed that particular feat again.

Rest assured, Seth was well informed on the subject. He did his research, and his decisions were made with the counsel of his trusted admins. I doubt Seth would ever make a rash, uninformed decision about the forum.

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09-07-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(09-07-2013 10:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  ^^ And generally, admin will do this: Rolleyes and everything will be fine. Just occasionally though, and I think there have been incidents in the past where it would have been justified as well, the up-in-arms crowd have a point which needs addressing - *not* necessarily by something as all-encompassing as the response this time, but which does need addressing.

The precedent *I'm* worried about is this idea that if we can't sort something out Seth must come and save us. In general he doesn't participate in the forum and so his actions here are extremely likely to be seen as heavy handed. By some miracle this time he hit exactly the right note, but I'd be surprised if he managed that particular feat again.

This is the one and only thing that bothers me about the resolution of this situation. The next time we have people who get their backs up at something (regardless of what it is) and the admin teams does not act in their favor or does not act quickly enough will the first response be to run to Daddy and cry? It sets a very bad precedent, though one that was likely necessary in this instance just do to the fact that the forum rules as they stood before were not being violated.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-07-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Yeah, I think in this particular instance it was a good thing... and ja, it wasn't the first thing people tried either. There was a long period of dialogue before things became out of hand...

And TBH it is Seth's brand so he *should* have the ability to be Daddy on his forum - that's *his* name associated with the brand.
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