A message from Seth
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08-07-2013, 04:39 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(07-07-2013 06:25 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  The following is a message from Seth to the forum:

To my friends in the TTA forum:

I’ve been made aware of the recent controversy regarding a thread titled “Pedophilia,” and I want to address it.

In the era of the ban-hammer, I tend to shy away from forbidding or banning any people or topics who post unpopular opinions and perspectives, as even the most distasteful of notions usually deserves the right to be heard, even if only to be rejected and rebuked.

In our free nation, we abide the bitter diatribes of the Klu Klux Klan under the First Amendment, because free speech must cover more than just what is palatable, or moral, or popular, or right. It must cover the best AND the worst.

I don’t see the forum or social media pages as a First Amendment haven, nor have I surrendered my right to set a specific tempo for the community. I do, however, allow many unpleasant and indefensible ideas to be presented so that they can be seen, absorbed and ultimately given the white-hot light of scrutiny that the skeptical community is so well known for. In almost all cases, the good men, women and youth of the TTA community actually provide the rebukes, the refutations and the outrage these bitter pills deserve.

In a rare case, though, I do step in and pull the plug. TTA’s forum is a place of discussion, yes, and free discussion at that. However, is it NOT required to pander to everyone and everything that comes along, and ultimately, it exists to provide conversation, support, encouragement, information and community to the atheist, the agnostic, the freethinker.

In a world where the non-believer is treated as caricature, as the monster, as the outcast, The Thinking Atheist is a safe place. And I’ll do whatever is necessary to preserve this.

Regarding the recent “Pedophilia” thread, I’m not opposed to discussion on a very controversial topic. I am, however, opposed to the disruption, distrust and dismay it has caused so many TTA forum users, as many of them have come from histories of sexual abuse themselves. I also consider this particular thread a distraction from our larger purpose – providing community, and as pedophilia targets the young and vulnerable in an illegal attempt to take advantage of innocence for adult sexual gratification, I have no intention of allowing it to continue.

This forum doesn’t need or want a thread on pedophilia, unless that thread is dedicated solely to its exposure and eradication and the prosecution of its offenders. To reiterate, TTA is a place for discussion on so many things, but for my part, on moral grounds, I see this issue as beyond discussion. I see it as settled. Pedophilia is an immoral, illegal act of abuse against a minor. Period. End of story.

For those seeking to understand what pedophilia is, how it propagates, how it can be treated, etc, there are much more qualified places than TTA for those conversations to be had, most of them hard-wired into the community of physical and psychological medicine. Those conversations don’t belong here, as they create so many more problems than they can solve in this particular venue.

The bottom line: I’m striking any and all threads regarding pedophilia from this forum, and I’m asking my admins to be an extension of that edict from this day forward. Any posts promoting or discussing at-length the sexual abuse of children will be removed and those behind those posts may be banned in short order. I cannot stress this more clearly.

To the good people of this community, I thank you for your participation, for your support, for your sharp minds and sharp wit, and for providing that much-needed safe place in a world of superstitious nonsense. In this vein, it is my hope that TTA can move forward from this one issue, refocus and rededicate itself to being the family it has been for so long.

Thank you for everything you are. You’re making a difference from without and within, and I’m honored to be in your company.

Oh well so much for that, thanks to the mods who have been amazing during my stay, thanks to TTA for a worthy forum until this point. On the point of promoting illegal activity fine, but a line has been crossed in censuring any discussion of a topic, this is no longer a forum of free and open debate, free thought and expression is no longer welcome and sadly that means I no longer feel welcome here. I do not require that my account be deleted, I require nothing further of this forum in any context it simply has no value now.

Lest I seem ungracious, I'd like to thank Hughsie for fighting the good fight for as long as it was his place to do so, I very much applaud your efforts and to be fair although less vocal Kingschosen was as stalwart. I'm personally sorry that things have turned out this way, but I cant fault either of you.

Lastly, Seth, you thanks for continued support does not include me I absolutely and my moral term do not condone this action, at one stroke you have destroyed the value of this forum for me at least, if I was at any point a part of this community, I am no longer.

to everyone else, I find this distasteful, offensive and morally repugnant, this action stand in direct contradiction of the guidelines and stated aims of this site. For those of you that stripped another participant of there right to participate, shame on you all. To those that don't care, probably more shame is yours and to those of you like me who have lost something, what ya going do.

Ive a couple of posts active in which, I invite response, if anyone wants to respond my emails in profile. Anyone who wishes to contact me can.

PAX

Legal Disclaimer: I am right, I reserve the right to be wrong without notice, opinions may change, your statutory rights are not affected, opinions expressed are not my own and are an approximation for the sake of communication.
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08-07-2013, 04:54 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 04:39 AM)Humakt Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 06:25 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  The following is a message from Seth to the forum:

To my friends in the TTA forum:

I’ve been made aware of the recent controversy regarding a thread titled “Pedophilia,” and I want to address it.

In the era of the ban-hammer, I tend to shy away from forbidding or banning any people or topics who post unpopular opinions and perspectives, as even the most distasteful of notions usually deserves the right to be heard, even if only to be rejected and rebuked.

In our free nation, we abide the bitter diatribes of the Klu Klux Klan under the First Amendment, because free speech must cover more than just what is palatable, or moral, or popular, or right. It must cover the best AND the worst.

I don’t see the forum or social media pages as a First Amendment haven, nor have I surrendered my right to set a specific tempo for the community. I do, however, allow many unpleasant and indefensible ideas to be presented so that they can be seen, absorbed and ultimately given the white-hot light of scrutiny that the skeptical community is so well known for. In almost all cases, the good men, women and youth of the TTA community actually provide the rebukes, the refutations and the outrage these bitter pills deserve.

In a rare case, though, I do step in and pull the plug. TTA’s forum is a place of discussion, yes, and free discussion at that. However, is it NOT required to pander to everyone and everything that comes along, and ultimately, it exists to provide conversation, support, encouragement, information and community to the atheist, the agnostic, the freethinker.

In a world where the non-believer is treated as caricature, as the monster, as the outcast, The Thinking Atheist is a safe place. And I’ll do whatever is necessary to preserve this.

Regarding the recent “Pedophilia” thread, I’m not opposed to discussion on a very controversial topic. I am, however, opposed to the disruption, distrust and dismay it has caused so many TTA forum users, as many of them have come from histories of sexual abuse themselves. I also consider this particular thread a distraction from our larger purpose – providing community, and as pedophilia targets the young and vulnerable in an illegal attempt to take advantage of innocence for adult sexual gratification, I have no intention of allowing it to continue.

This forum doesn’t need or want a thread on pedophilia, unless that thread is dedicated solely to its exposure and eradication and the prosecution of its offenders. To reiterate, TTA is a place for discussion on so many things, but for my part, on moral grounds, I see this issue as beyond discussion. I see it as settled. Pedophilia is an immoral, illegal act of abuse against a minor. Period. End of story.

For those seeking to understand what pedophilia is, how it propagates, how it can be treated, etc, there are much more qualified places than TTA for those conversations to be had, most of them hard-wired into the community of physical and psychological medicine. Those conversations don’t belong here, as they create so many more problems than they can solve in this particular venue.

The bottom line: I’m striking any and all threads regarding pedophilia from this forum, and I’m asking my admins to be an extension of that edict from this day forward. Any posts promoting or discussing at-length the sexual abuse of children will be removed and those behind those posts may be banned in short order. I cannot stress this more clearly.

To the good people of this community, I thank you for your participation, for your support, for your sharp minds and sharp wit, and for providing that much-needed safe place in a world of superstitious nonsense. In this vein, it is my hope that TTA can move forward from this one issue, refocus and rededicate itself to being the family it has been for so long.

Thank you for everything you are. You’re making a difference from without and within, and I’m honored to be in your company.

Oh well so much for that, thanks to the mods who have been amazing during my stay, thanks to TTA for a worthy forum until this point. On the point of promoting illegal activity fine, but a line has been crossed in censuring any discussion of a topic, this is no longer a forum of free and open debate, free thought and expression is no longer welcome and sadly that means I no longer feel welcome here. I do not require that my account be deleted, I require nothing further of this forum in any context it simply has no value now.

Lest I seem ungracious, I'd like to thank Hughsie for fighting the good fight for as long as it was his place to do so, I very much applaud your efforts and to be fair although less vocal Kingschosen was as stalwart. I'm personally sorry that things have turned out this way, but I cant fault either of you.

Lastly, Seth, you thanks for continued support does not include me I absolutely and my moral term do not condone this action, at one stroke you have destroyed the value of this forum for me at least, if I was at any point a part of this community, I am no longer.

to everyone else, I find this distasteful, offensive and morally repugnant, this action stand in direct contradiction of the guidelines and stated aims of this site. For those of you that stripped another participant of there right to participate, shame on you all. To those that don't care, probably more shame is yours and to those of you like me who have lost something, what ya going do.

Ive a couple of posts active in which, I invite response, if anyone wants to respond my emails in profile. Anyone who wishes to contact me can.

PAX

Humakt,

I understand your passion for Free Speech and so I can understand your dissapointment. Nevertheless, why don't you "give it some time" before you decide to break away. In time, you may see things differently or...to agree to disagree and go on - but the what we think does change over time.

Now...I am not trying to inure you to bad things: I don't want you doing things you don't believe in. But I don't see how hanging out for a while could make things worse and....I would miss you if you up and left.

Julius
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08-07-2013, 05:06 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 03:56 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 03:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Did you not actually read Seth's message?

I said it a place of discussion. I read Seth's post, which is why my RESPONSE WAS MY OPINION, Chas. I stated it frequently that it was my opinion. It goal is to support ATHEISTS/AGNOSTICS/FREE THINKERS. It is here to support them on atheism/agnosticism/Free Thinking because that is the majority. Its goal is NOT to help people with pyschological problems. It is not here to stop suicides, it is not here to prevent PTSD, it is not here to appease everyone.

That is how I took Seth's statement.

I recongnize this is private poperty, and shit can be done as it is wished, however it is my opinion that the issue, if brought up in a manner that wasn't intentionally harmful, should be discussed.

You recognize opinion, right? I recognize the fact we can't talk about it, and I accept it as a rule, why? Because I recongnize private property.


However there is no rule to say that I can't critizise or voice my disagreement on a rule, without breaking them is there?

You said: "The goal of the forum is not to help people. It is to discuss issues."

That is in contradiction to what Seth said.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-07-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Are people still really trying to pull the whole "Seth is opposed to your free-speech principles" thing?

Bear in mind that when Seth was opposed to the paedophilia discussion, he ended it. It had only been going on for about three days and he stepped in and finished it. The free-speech has been going strong for over three years on here. He has never contacted James, Lucas, Eric, Jamie, or myself to have that policy ended.

What does that tell you?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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08-07-2013, 06:41 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Free speech is still here on the forum, pedophillia isn't. This doesnt really affect anyone since it wasn't exactly a hot topic in the past.

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08-07-2013, 06:56 AM
RE: A message from Seth
I don't know what the argument is. We have a clear mission statement now:

Quote:it exists to provide conversation, support, encouragement, information and community to the atheist, the agnostic, the freethinker.

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08-07-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Lolz. Like a buncha fundies arguing scriptural translation. Big Grin

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08-07-2013, 07:05 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 07:00 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Lolz. Like a buncha fundies arguing scriptural translation. Big Grin

Hahahahahahahahaha, OMG that is exactly what it's like. Big Grin

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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08-07-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: A message from Seth
Good morning.

I'm amazed at the diatribes of the "free speech" crowd. This happens on Facebook on any (extremely rare) occasion that I have to remove a troll, evangelist or conversation thread that is causing more disruptions than is necessary or healthy for the community as a whole. Wounded in pride, they claim moral high ground and wail, "MY FREE SPEECH HAS BEEN STRIPPED AWAY."

It's certainly a lofty claim, and I'm sure these people are enjoying the illusion of moral high ground. But it's only an illusion.

Since when has our private forum, a community for skeptics, been required to abide and/or entertain anything and everything that comes down the pipe? Some treat this sole decision as an indictment of all free expression in a vast, diverse and hugely free forum. Their knee-jerk reactions do an injustice to the community, and to the good work that Tim, Jay and Jeremy are doing every day in the admin position here.

There exist a lot of more qualified and more appropriate places for the discussions promoting (and I mean promoting) pedophilia. I simply won't allow the pro-pedophilia platform to be constructed on TTA. And if the issue comes up in another context, it can rightly be addressed and discussed as the destructive cancer that it is.

We can talk about pedophilia as a problem inside and outside of the church. We can provide support to the victims. And we will continue to do so. But again, I will not allow this forum to be used in any way to 1) argue the merits of pedophilia or to 2) disrupt the tempo of this community.

On the TTA forum, we have free speech. But we also have guidelines. Any adult can understand how the two concepts relate to each other. Even in the arena of the First Amendment, "free speech" doesn't allow someone to yell "fire" in a crowded theater just for kicks. There are boundaries in place for a reason.

When this is brought to light, it's often the children who stomp their feet in frothing protest at the notion of rules. I'm not too concerned about their feelings. I'm concerned about protecting this wonderful place and its users.

Onward. And thank you.

--
Seth Andrews
Host - The Thinking Atheist
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Seth Andrews
TTA Founder and Host
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08-07-2013, 07:36 AM
RE: A message from Seth
(08-07-2013 07:32 AM)Editor-TheThinkingAtheist Wrote:  Good morning.

I'm amazed at the diatribes of the "free speech" crowd. This happens on Facebook on any (extremely rare) occasion that I have to remove a troll, evangelist or conversation thread that is causing more disruptions than is necessary or healthy for the community as a whole. Wounded in pride, they claim moral high ground and wail, "MY FREE SPEECH HAS BEEN STRIPPED AWAY."

It's certainly a lofty claim, and I'm sure these people are enjoying the illusion of moral high ground. But it's only an illusion.

Since when has our private forum, a community for skeptics, been required to abide and/or entertain anything and everything that comes down the pipe? Some treat this sole decision as an indictment of all free expression in a vast, diverse and hugely free forum. Their knee-jerk reactions do an injustice to the community, and to the good work that Tim, Jay and Jeremy are doing every day in the admin position here.

There exist a lot of more qualified and more appropriate places for the discussions promoting (and I mean promoting) pedophilia. I simply won't allow the pro-pedophilia platform to be constructed on TTA. And if the issue comes up in another context, it can rightly be addressed and discussed as the destructive cancer that it is.

We can talk about pedophilia as a problem inside and outside of the church. We can provide support to the victims. And we will continue to do so. But again, I will not allow this forum to be used in any way to 1) argue the merits of pedophilia or to 2) disrupt the tempo of this community.

On the TTA forum, we have free speech. But we also have guidelines. Any adult can understand how the two concepts relate to each other. Even in the arena of the First Amendment, "free speech" doesn't allow someone to yell "fire" in a crowded theater just for kicks. There are boundaries in place for a reason.

When this is brought to light, it's often the children who stomp their feet in frothing protest at the notion of rules. I'm not too concerned about their feelings. I'm concerned about protecting this wonderful place and its users.

Onward. And thank you.

--
Seth Andrews
Host - The Thinking Atheist
YouTube Facebook Twitter BlogTalkRadio iTunes Stitcher

Again - thank you. Smile

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