A mockery called "free speech"
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25-03-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
You can deny any event in history... except one?

It just seems really weird to me. If anything, it's handing over unnecessary ammunition to conspiracy nuts by trying to gag it.

Has this law ever been enforced, out of interest?

Someone could genuinely conclude that they think it didn't happen. It may be incredibly stupid, but I don't think it should be illegal. It doesn't have to imply an agenda.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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25-03-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 03:23 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  You can deny any event in history... except one?


You can try to deny each and everyone but denying this one had consequences. Seeing as only nazi like idiots would try to deny that Shoah took place I have no big problem with this law.

Quote: It just seems really weird to me. If anything, it's handing over unnecessary ammunition to conspiracy nuts by trying to gag it.


I see nothing weird in it. And conspiracy nuts always will find some ammunition.

Quote: Has this law ever been enforced, out of interest?


I have no idea.

Quote: Someone could genuinely conclude that they think it didn't happen. It may be incredibly stupid, but I don't think it should be illegal. It doesn't have to imply an agenda.

Considering how widely known Shoah is that certain one would have to be so dumb that he wouldn't be able walk and breathe at the same time, especially when to deny something one must be aware of it. So let's be honest here - to deny Holocaust means to have agenda in doing so.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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25-03-2017, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2017 04:16 PM by abaris.)
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 03:23 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  You can deny any event in history... except one?

It just seems really weird to me. If anything, it's handing over unnecessary ammunition to conspiracy nuts by trying to gag it.

Has this law ever been enforced, out of interest?

It's a law, originally imposed by the allies and updated since then. You're not allowed to fly a swastika, use other nazi symbols, do the Hitler salute or to deny the Holocaust.

And yes, it's invoked quite often. Mostly ending up in a few months probation for posting shit on Facebook or on some other social media platform. This overlaps with hate speech, which, far as I know is illegal in the UK and in France also.

Btw, it's mostly along the lines of wishing the Shoa treatment on immigrants, refugees or muslims. Quite ironically not denying that the Shoa actually happened. Just celebrating it and desiring for it to happen again.
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25-03-2017, 04:17 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 01:15 PM)Leela Wrote:  
(25-03-2017 12:28 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  I think that she is Fred
I'll forgive the "she" because you don't know me or Fred. Also not that it matters to this discussion but there is a rule here that everybody is allowed only one account. I have been on this forum for six years. You don't think that me or ImFred or both of us would have been banned during all this time if we were the same person? Big Grin If you don't trust them to be proactive on it, go ahead and report me and ImFred. See if we get banned Wink
Anyway thanks for bring the first one, other than Fred, to acknowledge what a rant is.

Now about what is true and what is not. For the purpose of having an argument, there is no problem with one person being right and one person being wrong. That is why we still have arguments over the existence of a god and that is why we still have people around that actually believe the earth is flat. We let them have a go with their side of the discussion and we let them fail. We get annoyed at the same old shit but we still let them talk. If I would make it illegal to say that the earth is flat, do you think it would change anything? I seriously doubt that. I am pretty sure that people would still have that opinion and they would still discuss it.

There is a German song called "Die Gedanken sind frei" (The thoughts are free)
Here is the English version. It's not an exact translation but still pretty accurate. It pretty much hits the nail on the head. You can think what you want and nothing can ever stop what you think (no law, no dectator, no walls, etc)... Just what I said previously.
Die gedanken sind frei
My thoughts freely flower
Die gedanken sind frei
My thoughts give me power
No scholar can map them
No hunter can trap them
No man can deny
Die gedanken sind frei
I think as I please
And this gives me pleasure
My conscience decrees
This right I must treasure
My thoughts will not cater
To duke or dictator
No man can deny
Die gedanken sind frei
Tyrants can take me
And throw me in prison
My thoughts will burst forth
Like blossoms in season
Foundations may crumble
And structures may tumble
But free men shall cry
Die gedanken sind frei

Opps.... I'm sorry, I saw the name Leela and thought of 'Lela' or something like a girls name form a book i read and assumed you were a girl. Sorry about that. I can be pretty dense at times... (Heck there are some of my own classmates I can't tell if they are a boy or girls and it'd be rude to ask. heheh...) So I am sorry.

Banned? Who said anything about getting you banned? Because I sure as hell didn't mean that. Huh

The argument part... I've had bad experiences with debates in the past. Mainly because I had plenty of facts to back me up, but it turned into an argument rather then a debate and ended with some rather horrid names being thrown around. I opted to stay out of arguments and going for more simple debates.

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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25-03-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 01:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(25-03-2017 12:31 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  Yet atheists can use the fact nazis believed in God as a form of debate with theists... Unsure

And how exactly one thing is tied to another?

Trying to make some strawman? Try harder.

....

actually I forgot what I was thinking when I said that... Consider

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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25-03-2017, 04:24 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 04:21 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  
(25-03-2017 01:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  And how exactly one thing is tied to another?

Trying to make some strawman? Try harder.

....

actually I forgot what I was thinking when I said that... Consider
It must had been quite something to tie two so unrelated topics.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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25-03-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(25-03-2017 04:24 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(25-03-2017 04:21 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  ....

actually I forgot what I was thinking when I said that... Consider
It must had been quite something to tie two so unrelated topics.

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That or I wasn't thinking at all.... I was early morning here when I made that comment.

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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25-03-2017, 04:44 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
Ruby, np haha. It's a female name so yea...
I see about the bad experience.


I am not sure why we are stuck on Nazi stuff. I moved away from it to bring my point across and gave different examples but some people don't want to talk about the actual topic in this thread but rather linger on Nazi stuff. Therefore I am out.

If anybody is still interested in talking about fee speech (or lack thereof), feel free to pm me.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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25-03-2017, 04:54 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
Quote:Nazi stuff.

I read on Breitbart that that "stuff" never even happened.
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25-03-2017, 07:29 PM
RE: A mockery called "free speech"
(24-03-2017 08:06 PM)Fireball Wrote:  At one wood working forum, some guy made a silhouette of a naked woman. He painted it "flesh color", with a touch of darker color at the nipple (only one was in a position to show). One person went NUTS, and complained that his 12 year old son could see this. I 'splained that his son has already probably seen much more than that. Crazy.
Reminds me of an outdoor mall in the town I used to live in, that had several bronze statues. One of them was of a comely young lass wearing a nice dress with a short skirt and no tidy whities to cover her bottom. It was ... tasteful but anatomically correct, shall we say.

One morning on my daily walk I found that someone had tied an apron around the statue. Somehow that was way more disturbing than getting a glimpse of an attractive butt crack. Later I found out that, predictably, there was a small group of prudes writing indignant letters to the editor about this statue. I moved away shortly after and am not sure what the final outcome was for the young lass made of copper.
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