A modest proposal for gun control
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24-12-2012, 01:37 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(24-12-2012 01:28 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-12-2012 12:45 PM)germanyt Wrote:  The evidence is there.
It is indeed. European countries have an extraordinarily lower gun crime rate and overall murder rate than the USA.
No they don't. The US for the past 4 decades has seen a significant drop in gun violence/murder. And the numbers are about 4 per 100000 in European countries and about 7 per 100000 in the US. And when European countries started banning guns the assault with deadly weapons other than guns went up. They just substituted shooting for stabbing.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mu...per-capita

In murders per capita the US doesn't even make this list.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ra...per-capita
In rapes per capita they do not even make the list

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime
Even including non violent criime the US, which has many times the population as European coutries only has twice the reported crime as the UK.


You are 25% more likely to be a victim of violent crime in the UK than you are in the US.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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24-12-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
And tell me why Switzerland is able to maintain such low gun crime rates that they don't even keep official statistics on it all the while having extremely loose gun laws that even permit fully automatic weapons to be owned by citizens.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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24-12-2012, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2012 02:17 PM by Vosur.)
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(24-12-2012 01:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  No they don't.
Yes, they actually do.

United States of America
Total murder rate: 5,0
Total murder count: 15399

United Kingdom
Total murder rate: 1,2
Total murder count: 722 (3610 with the US population taken into account)

Germany
Total murder rate: 0,8
Total murder count: 690 (2691 with the US population taken into account)

France
Total murder rate: 1,1
Total murder count: 682 (3287 with the US population taken into account)

Belgium
Total murder rate: 1,7
Total murder count: 186 (5301 with the US population taken into account)

And it's not only Europe:

Austria
Total murder rate: 0,5
Total murder count: 43 (1608 with the US population taken into account)

The difference is even more apparent when we compare the number of homicides committed by firearms only.

(24-12-2012 01:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  And the numbers are about 4 per 100000 in European countries and about 7 per 100000 in the US.
The UNODC and WHO would like to disagree with you, see above.

(24-12-2012 01:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  And when European countries started banning guns the assault with deadly weapons other than guns went up. They just substituted shooting for stabbing.
Claims like this are null and void unless you a.) specify which European countries you are talking about and b.) cite a source to support it.

(24-12-2012 01:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mu...per-capita

In murders per capita the US doesn't even make this list.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ra...per-capita
In rapes per capita they do not even make the list

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime
Even including non violent criime the US, which has many times the population as European coutries only has twice the reported crime as the UK.
I'd rather trust the United Nations Organization and the World Health Organization instead of a spurious source that is known for it's inaccurate and outdated data.

(24-12-2012 01:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  You are 25% more likely to be a victim of violent crime in the UK than you are in the US.
Source?

Lastly, thanks for making the following unsubstantiated claim and avoiding to cite a source to support it when asked to do so.
(24-12-2012 12:45 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Rural areas with loose gun restrictions have gun crime 1/10 of that in areas of Europe with very tight gun control.

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24-12-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
Homicides committed by firearms only is irrelevant. Take away the gun and they find something else to kill someone with. You can't cite murder rates by gun and totally ignore the fact that crime rates are unaffected by banning guns.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-12-2012, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2012 02:40 PM by Vosur.)
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(24-12-2012 02:26 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Homicides committed by firearms only is irrelevant.
I stated that "Many European countries have an extraordinarily low rate and number of firearm homicides as well as overall murders in comparison with the United States", to which you responded "No they don't". I cited a source to support my claim, hence why it actually is relevant.

(24-12-2012 02:26 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Take away the gun and they find something else to kill someone with. You can't cite murder rates by gun and totally ignore the fact murders committed using any weapon.
What are you talking about? The data I cited clearly shows that both the number and rate of homicides committed by firearms, as well as the ones using other weapons are drastically lower in Europe.

And you still haven't provided me with a source for several assertions.

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24-12-2012, 02:50 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2012 04:17 PM by germanyt.)
RE: A modest proposal for gun control





http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...xEAWwagc#!

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-12-2012, 02:58 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control



“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-12-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012...rs_to.html

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-12-2012, 03:15 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
What does any of that have to do with anything we've been talking about? The first video isn't even working.

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24-12-2012, 04:17 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
Don't know why the embed isn't working. I posted the link.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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