A modest proposal for gun control
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26-05-2013, 10:16 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(26-05-2013 03:04 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Why is it illegal for felons to own a gun in the US?
Did they not serve the time for their crime?
Are they not full citizens again?

Should we ban then from sex, eating at restaurants, schools, government buildings, etc.

I believe this is the civil rights issue of our time. Tongue

This is a major problem with the current state of the justice system because it begins to create a hopeless cycle of crime. I also don't like these sex offender registries for the same reason. Add to this people and businesses like Corrections Corporation of America who profit off locking people up and you have a recipe for a criminal and incarcerated caste in this country which is decidedly un-American. I'd have to write a piece on what I would do with the justice system in my perfect world but criminal records would be wiped clean after a period of upstanding citizenship. You will notice with my IPL, people convicted of crimes may buy a firearm after 5-10 years of their release, pending a clean criminal history during that time period.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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26-05-2013, 10:33 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 02:30 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The quantity of deaths prevented is irrelevant. If it can prevent one death, it is worth it.

Are you prepared to do this by infringing upon people's 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendment rights to do so as well? <Crickets>

That's a decidedly Un-American attitude.

One life is NOT worth giving up our freedoms and liberties for.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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26-05-2013, 10:42 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 02:58 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Violent Crime rates and murder rates from 1960 to 2010. What was this about there not being an appreciable impact by gun legislation in the '90s?

During the period of the assault weapons ban from 1994 to 2004, both violent crime and murder rates dropped (after leveling off the last 4 years from 2000 to 2004, coincident with Bush's presidency). The violent crime rate dropped by 25 points while the murder rate dropped by 0.3 points.

The point is this, crime rates are at an all time low for the last 30 years, as are murder rates. These are trends towards significant decreases from all-time highs in the mid-early 90's.

I am not saying gun legislation is the only cause, but it surely had an impact. Perhaps the decreases in the mid-late 70's are also correlated with the Vietnam War and its resulting impact back home? The War on Drugs might be in here somewhere too with rates increasing dramatically in the mid 80's into the 90's?

Not simple, but arguing that legislation has done nothing is fruitless.

I did this myself from data here: http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/...yState.cfm

I'd be very surprised that the AWB caused the reduction in violent crime during that period as so few crimes are committed using these rifles.

I probably would peg the changes on tougher prison terms to keep violent felons off the streets as well as the widespread use of contraception and termination of unwanted pregnancies in the 1970s.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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26-05-2013, 10:56 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(21-12-2012 08:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It was written prior to the formation of a federal standing army, and the Supreme Court did not interpret the law as loosely until 1977.

Actually, it did. See US v Miller, 1939.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

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30-05-2013, 12:01 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
No. Plain and simple. Ask Chicago how their strict gun laws are working. And ask New Hampshire and Vermont how their loose run laws are working.

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30-05-2013, 02:57 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
The effectiveness of gun laws measured by comparison between states is plain and oversimple.
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30-05-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(30-05-2013 12:01 AM)Generation Why? Wrote:  No. Plain and simple. Ask Chicago how their strict gun laws are working. And ask New Hampshire and Vermont how their loose run laws are working.

New Hampshire and Vermont do not have the serious problems with gang turf wars like Chicago does. People can also cite Australia which has seen marked drops in violent crime with some gun restrictions in place. Also, Chicago and IL gun laws really can't work since the purpose of these laws is to dry up easy availability of guns. Crooks run over to IN, or MI and buy them there, then smuggle the weapons back into Chicago. I daresay if IN or MI or WI or MN or the entire nation has a system like the IPL in place, this would drop out considerably.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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30-05-2013, 12:35 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2013 12:38 PM by Phaedrus.)
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
One of the big problems is stolen guns. Gun safes are very expensive to buy, and even more expensive to install. Low-income families can easily afford a cheap handgun or shotgun ($200 - $500) but cannot easily afford a real gun safe ($1500 - $2500 with installation). Instead guns are stored in closets, night stands, or at best locked cabinets which can be easily broken into with a prybar or sledgehammer.

Trying to enforce mandatory gun safe ownership for firearm owners is classist; restricting the poor (which disproportionately includes blacks and other minorities...) from owning guns since they can't afford the safe, while allowing wealthy whites to keep their guns (although not as many). This also raises issues of how you'll guarantee that guns are kept in safes, and whether there's enough safe space for the guns owned. Keeping track of that would likely require a registry, which is a political impossibility, and would require an expansive bureaucracy besides.

I propose a gun safe subsidy, putting $1000 toward installation of a real, certified gun safe (not just Stack-On cabinets...) for first time firearms owners, or people who already own firearms. Additionally or alternatively, the government could enact legislation making it far easier to get financing to buy a gun safe. This would reduce the cost of entry for these safety measures, allowing more people to store their guns in a way that is very difficult to steal; it takes specialist knowledge, high-end tools, and a lot of time and/or noise to crack a well-made and properly installed safe.

This means that fewer guns would be stolen, thus there would be fewer guns on the street. It would be cheaper than setting up a gun registry, and would have support from both sides of the aisle, and could really have a tangible impact on gun crime.



Or is that not acceptable to control advocates?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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30-05-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
Same/same with different countries too.


(30-05-2013 02:57 AM)fat cat Wrote:  The effectiveness of gun laws measured by comparison between states is plain and oversimple.
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30-05-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(25-05-2013 01:58 AM)JAH Wrote:  The BlackKnight, I come from an odd perspective, but that is immaterial.

I am thinking about buying a short barrel double barrel shotgun to keep by my front door. I have no doubt that I will be approved for gun ownership.

I also will soon live near where many teenagers walk between school and a shopping area at lunch. I am tempted to sit there with the shotgun unloaded on my lap. I think the latter would be a more useful use of the shotgun then for self protection but I am a little uncertain.

I have no problem with guns in certain hands. I know many people who enjoy guns and use them for sport or hunting. I also know people who own guns who I distrust. It is not an easy issue.

If you are serious?

A firearm really isnt something to be used for posturing.Many states have brandishing laws . Keep it ready to use ie loaded and secure from any children in your house. You also need to keep a flashlight with or on it for threat ID. Having XXX lumens worth of light is very advantagous for you.
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