A modest proposal for gun control
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18-12-2012, 04:31 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 04:02 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  I'd also like to point out that the comparison to Fundamentalists works equally well both ways. I can accuse you of ignoring statistics too -- Gasp! Novel! But most of all with people like Logica, who seek to ban guns without knowing anything about them, even the difference between a rifle and a shotgun. It's just like people who seek to discredit science without knowing anything about it.

See? It's a fallacy, it's a bad argument. And you're flailing it around like it's some mighty good point. Seriously, no.
I know the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. I also admitted to be incorrect, if you care to read what your opposition says. I am not at all fundamentalist, and I am not militant for the banning of firearms. All I have argued for, as I have repetitively stated, is to simply strengthen the regulation and monitoring of firearms.

See? You continue in your ignorance.

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18-12-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
I strongly advocate a psych evaluation or proof of a sound mind before purchasing a gun. I know that most people using the guns aren't crazy, but usually the people that commit mass shootings, like the recent ones, tend to have SOMETHING wrong with them. I am for allowing people guns, I am also for a better enforcement of guns laws.

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18-12-2012, 05:07 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 05:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I strongly advocate a psych evaluation or proof of a sound mind before purchasing a gun. I know that most people using the guns aren't crazy, but usually the people that commit mass shootings, like the recent ones, tend to have SOMETHING wrong with them. I am for allowing people guns, I am also for a better enforcement of guns laws.
As far as I know, psychological evaluations are not even performed, and has not been a thought. Eligibility for a license is based on your criminal record.

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18-12-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 05:07 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I strongly advocate a psych evaluation or proof of a sound mind before purchasing a gun. I know that most people using the guns aren't crazy, but usually the people that commit mass shootings, like the recent ones, tend to have SOMETHING wrong with them. I am for allowing people guns, I am also for a better enforcement of guns laws.
As far as I know, psychological evaluations are not even done. Eligibility for a license is based on your criminal record.
That's what I mean, it should be done.

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18-12-2012, 05:54 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 05:08 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:07 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  As far as I know, psychological evaluations are not even done. Eligibility for a license is based on your criminal record.
That's what I mean, it should be done.
Convince the NRA to do so. Drinking Beverage

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18-12-2012, 06:21 PM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 03:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 03:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  The assault weapons ban ended 8 years ago. Crime rate still falling. That law was ineffective.
One more time, I am not saying the assault weapons ban was the only factor. Post-war peace seems to be recurrent too, and that would currently qualify.

Rates were constant throughout Bush's presidency and started to decrease again during Obama's.

There are other factors, I am well aware. But one cannot argue that the law was ineffective from the numbers or the rates. The trend is coincident with it having had a positive impact, not a negative impact and not a neutral impact.
I disagree. It is consistent with a neutral impact.

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19-12-2012, 02:43 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
Just revoke the law that basically allows you to bring concealed gun(s) to national parks or anywhere. So keep your gun(s) to yourself IN your house.

Even that is still dangerous. Keeping guns in your house, I mean.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...bled=false

That statistic we've been seeing on Richard Dawkin's Facebook page is sound. For example, in 2006, there were 10,225 gun related homicides in United States. Compare that to Japan in the same year, only 2. That's crazy! There has been NO mass shooting in Australia for 16 years since the gun control law passed.

I agree with some of your points regarding owning a sidearm, but numbers don't lie. Just think about it for a moment. Yes, people will always find a way to hurt others, but without guns? The worst would be what happened in China, mass stabbings, NONE dead.
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19-12-2012, 04:04 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 05:07 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I strongly advocate a psych evaluation or proof of a sound mind before purchasing a gun. I know that most people using the guns aren't crazy, but usually the people that commit mass shootings, like the recent ones, tend to have SOMETHING wrong with them. I am for allowing people guns, I am also for a better enforcement of guns laws.
As far as I know, psychological evaluations are not even performed, and has not been a thought. Eligibility for a license is based on your criminal record.
It's funny.
They have to wait till you do something horrible before they can prevent you from doing something horrible.
Sounds like stalkers.

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19-12-2012, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2012 07:54 AM by FZUMedia.)
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(18-12-2012 12:18 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Here's my proposal for a modest form of gun control.

in order to buy a firearm in this country, a person must possess an IPL, an Individual Purchase License.

In order to obtain this, one must join a shooting club and be a member there for a probationary period of some length of time, say 3-6 month. He/she must regularly shoot with the club, take X number of classes from the club on gun ownership, firearms safety, etc. The advantage here is not simply the education of the members on guns and shooting, it is the ability to observe them for any signs of aberrant, reckless or dangerous behavior when handling firearms. I know this would have stopped Jim Holmes the Aurora movie theater shootings and to a high degree of probability I will say it could have prevented the Columbine shootings, the Virginia Tech Massacre and what happened to Gabrielle Giffords.

If one successfully clears this process and obtains the endorsement of the club, the applicant must then submit to a background check for the following criminal offenses.

Violent felonies committed within the past 10 years
Felonies committed within the past 5 years
Warrants issued for their arrest.
Pending criminal charges for spousal battery or abuse as well as abuse of a child under their guardianship.
Fugitives from Justice
The individual is guilty of unlawful residence in the United States.

In addition the individual must not be suffering from the following mental illnesses

Psychosis
Schitzophrenia
Severe personality disorders
Suicidal Ideations in the past 5 years.
Bipolar Disorder
A history of sociopathology.

With all this cleared, and under the terms of the Second Amendment, the government SHALL ISSUE said person in good standing with the state a Tier I Individual Purchase License in order to purchase firearms governed under the terms of Title I of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

The license is valid for a period of 10 years and can be renewed simply upon request of the possessor.

The license shall be suspended if any of the disqualifying conditions above are met during its valid period.

Once the individual is in possession of his/her Tier I IPL, he/she may purchase guns from a FFL dealer or an individual seller. There are no waiting periods or restrictions or other background checks necessary. The user simply shows his/her IPL to an FFL dealer or seller, an inquiry is made to the FBI via electronic scan (just like swiping a credit card) and results come back in 20 seconds.

No person shall sell to or buy from a firearm from another party who does not possess a valid IPL. Violation of this is a criminal offense punishable by fines up $200,000 and up to 10 years in prison.

Current firearms possessed by lawful gun owners SHALL NOT be siezed from their respectful owners. However all further transactions of guns in their collection and new purchases of firearms must be done by means of an Tier I IPL. We ARE NOT COMING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS SO DON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH, RED STATE AMERICA!

There is also a Tier II IPL, which allows a user to purchase firearms listed under terms of Title II of the NFA. This includes Machine Guns, Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns and Other Destructive Devices short of major weapons systems which require congressional approval for sale and/or subject to International Trafficking in Arms Requirements (ITAR) restrictions. To obtain a Tier II IPL a person must have held a Tier I IPL in good standing for at least a period of 5 years, be a US Citizen, pay a $1000 application fee, and are required to pass a Fundamentals of Automatic Weapons Course at a local gun club.

All Title II firearms are subject to a $200 tax at time of purchase.

Law Enforcement and security personnel SHALL BE issued a Tier II IPL pending approval from their department heads for duty use.
If you try to 'modestly' take my guns or $200 from me by force I will shoot you or use the nearest deadly force, so it's at your own risk.
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19-12-2012, 07:48 AM
RE: A modest proposal for gun control
(19-12-2012 02:43 AM)yongkykun Wrote:  Just revoke the law that basically allows you to bring concealed gun(s) to national parks or anywhere. So keep your gun(s) to yourself IN your house.

Even that is still dangerous. Keeping guns in your house, I mean.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...bled=false

That statistic we've been seeing on Richard Dawkin's Facebook page is sound. For example, in 2006, there were 10,225 gun related homicides in United States. Compare that to Japan in the same year, only 2. That's crazy! There has been NO mass shooting in Australia for 16 years since the gun control law passed.

I agree with some of your points regarding owning a sidearm, but numbers don't lie. Just think about it for a moment. Yes, people will always find a way to hurt others, but without guns? The worst would be what happened in China, mass stabbings, NONE dead.
Wilderness hiking and camping is dangerous, there are dangerous predators. There is also the possibility of being lost or injured. Allowing firearms in the parks was a rational decision.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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