A new proof for the existence of God
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17-02-2014, 01:47 PM
A new proof for the existence of God
First of all, I'm a skeptic and so I'm not trying to create a meaningless controversy. But this argument is, I think, very interesting. It has a couple of novel features, including that the universe can be both self-existent and the creation of God.

1) We can accept with near certainty the idea that nothing comes from nothing. Therefore, either the universe or a Creator (which we will call God) is eternal. But, as Derek Parfit has remarked, this makes the null hypothesis (nothing exists) impossible, because either God or the universe is a kind of brute fact. Now let us hypothesize that if God exists, he exists necessarily. (And does that consideration imply that if God doesn't exist, then the whole notion of God is incoherent?) But why should we think that the universe had to be? Parsimony would seem to indicate the null hypothesis (that nothing exists). But if something had to be, we are therefore left with the only possible being that is necessarily self-existent, namely the Creator/God. This line of reasoning may sound like the ontological argument, but notice that the OA begins with a conscious observer, while this argument has more of a transcendental flavor. The crucial part is the notion that something had to exist. And as a kind of bonus, the fact that the multiverse is surprising is retained.

2) God is by definition self-existent. And why? We might say that God is congruent with Cantor's Absolute Infinite, the set of all sets. According to Wikipedia: "The Absolute Infinite is mathematician Georg Cantor's concept of an 'infinity' that transcends the transfinite numbers. Cantor equated the Absolute Infinite with God. He held that the Absolute Infinite had various mathematical properties, including the reflection principle which says that every property of the Absolute Infinite is also held by some smaller object". There are therefore no possibilities outside of God, such as the possibility of non-existence. But can any such considerations be applied to the lone universe? However, the reflection principle says that every property of God is also held by a lesser being. So what about God's aseity? What lesser being would possess this property? Paradoxically it is the universe! This is because the universe is utterly dependent on God, i.e. a member of the set of all sets. We therefore satisfy both camps, as it were: the universe is both self-existent and the creation of God. And I would suggest that it is highly problematic that God could create anything that is outside of himself, that has a radically different ontological status. This view strongly suggests either 1) a kind of idealism, in which the universe is fundamentally God's thought or 2) pantheism/panentheism. But even given the traditional view that God created something outside of himself, again the universe's self-existence is maintained. Thus, we may say that God possesses self-existence in the strong sense, or aseity properly speaking; while the universe possesses self-existence in the weak sense.
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17-02-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
Something from nothing argument.

Too tired, too sick.

It is very possible to get something from nothing. I'm sure someone will point you to Lawrence Krauss. The rest looks like word salad and verbal prestidigitation. I'll take another look later.
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17-02-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
Dunno what I just read... But it looks like bullshit to me.

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17-02-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
(17-02-2014 01:47 PM)rmberwin Wrote:  First of all, I'm a skeptic and so I'm not trying to create a meaningless controversy. But this argument is, I think, very interesting. It has a couple of novel features, including that the universe can be both self-existent and the creation of God.

It would have been nice to introduce yourself first, and then making a crazy post.

So, welcome, and now, who created god ?

The rest seems to be a mental justification exercise in a futile effort to 'proclaim' that any god exists. Care to expand on your theory ?

(I have a feeling this is just another 1rst troll thread Dodgy )

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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17-02-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
Define "nothing"

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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17-02-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
Why do a lot of people on here put spaces between the ends of their questions and their question marks? Like this ?

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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17-02-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
(17-02-2014 02:21 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Why do a lot of people on here put spaces between the ends of their questions and their question marks? Like this ?

Now there is a question worth a debate Thumbsup

I'll have to give it some thought tho . Ya know? ? Tongue

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17-02-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
You need to redefine your idea of "proof" Drinking Beverage

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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17-02-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
(17-02-2014 02:21 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Why do a lot of people on here put spaces between the ends of their questions and their question marks? Like this ?

Why do you care ?

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17-02-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: A new proof for the existence of God
(17-02-2014 02:54 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  
(17-02-2014 02:21 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Why do a lot of people on here put spaces between the ends of their questions and their question marks? Like this ?

Why do you care ?

I support the English language and it supports me. Thumbsup

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