A not so common defense of Christianity
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12-09-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
(12-09-2016 05:18 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  The offspring of fallen angels and human women. They are Giants ...

Seems like the god should have been able to identify and target them pretty easily. Why kill all the regular size humans when they obviously aren't Nephilim?

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12-09-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
(12-09-2016 04:24 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-09-2016 01:55 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Hey everyone! I'm an agnostic who used to be an atheist(Christian before that) and I'm really trying to be as open minded as possible in terms of what I believe and don't believe. So, on YouTube there is a guy who's channel is called Godrules and he discusses some topics that have allegedly been skewed in the bible and lead to atheism he claims( it's interesting and I recommend atheists go check out). The rest of that is for another forum. Anyways his claim converning Noah's ark and the flood is that God isn't genocidal because he was killing off Nephilim in the flood and he uses the book of Enoch and jubilees to "prove" that. He also says that anytime God ordered genocide of a nation in the Old Testament he is really just commanding extermination of the Nephilim. I'm curious what arguments atheists have on this one because I've already heard the Christain perspective, but anyone can comment. Is this what the bible teaches? Or is there error morally and the God of the Old Testament really is a genocidal maniac? Thanks.

Genesis 6:5-7:

6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

No mention of the Nephilim, the preceding passages state that men's life was shortened because of breeding with Nephilim, but humans, animals, and plants were condemned to die because god was moping. Facepalm

Do you understand just how weak this makes this god? He can only commit indiscriminate genocide, he can't narrow down his murderous rage to only those that committed this "sin".

He can't control any aspect of his own alleged creation. The humans are ignoring him, the fallen angels are ignoring him. It looks like this god is totally ineffectual. Don't give me this nonsense about human choice, this particular genocide involved animals and Nephilim.

Here's an idea, whoever tries to explain anything about this story is basically giving their own interpretation. This is just another way of lying, trying to explain things that don't require any of this nonsense to understand.

It's a made up story that's derived from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Sumerians made their tale of Ziusudra, the Babylonians took the tale and put in their guy Utnapishtim, then the Hebrews put in their guy Noah.

The earlier, original incarnations of this story showed the Sumerian and Babylonian gods as capricious, small-minded, totally without compassion, Enlil brings the flood about because men were noisy! This is the basis for the Hebrew version, the Hebrews practice the idea of inversion in their stories where they invert older myths to change them when they incorporate it into Hebrew myth.

This is done in the story of Noah where the Hebrews turn the moral tale around and point the finger of blame for the flood at humans instead of the small-minded pricks of the Sumerian pantheon.

The story of Noah is simply a rewrite that tries to make humans the guilty party, but the ORIGINAL story has the idiotic gods as the guilty party. That's why Enki warns Ziusudra of the flood, because the lazy-assed gods would have to make their own food if all of the humans were killed.

This is where it comes from, long before Hebrew myth tried to salvage their god concept from this story and paint humans as bad, Sumerian and Babylonian myth clearly showed these gods as the murderous buffoons that they were.

The sorry apologism for this murderous genocide has been going on for millenia, because the Hebrew chucklefucks couldn't separate their god concept from the genocide of this story, they could only assert that we were the bad guys and their god was perfect and just.

But guess what? They failed!
Great answers! That really opened my eyes again. Thanks for the sources too!Wink

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12-09-2016, 05:33 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
(12-09-2016 05:18 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  
(12-09-2016 03:13 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  So what are his definitions of Nephilim and how is it OK to kill them?
The offspring of fallen angels and human women. They are Giants and apparently their purpose was to corrupt the seedline so Jesus couldn't come from a perfect seed. Genesis 3:15

.... so, um, why couldn't God just snap his figurative fingers, magi-miraculously move a few genes in a few eggs or sperm around, and thus purify the "seedline" whenever the hell he wanted?

.... for that matter, why did God need a seedline or a perfect seed at all?

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12-09-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
(12-09-2016 01:55 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Hey everyone! I'm an agnostic who used to be an atheist(Christian before that) and I'm really trying to be as open minded as possible in terms of what I believe and don't believe. So, on YouTube there is a guy who's channel is called Godrules and he discusses some topics that have allegedly been skewed in the bible and lead to atheism he claims( it's interesting and I recommend atheists go check out). The rest of that is for another forum. Anyways his claim converning Noah's ark and the flood is that God isn't genocidal because he was killing off Nephilim in the flood and he uses the book of Enoch and jubilees to "prove" that. He also says that anytime God ordered genocide of a nation in the Old Testament he is really just commanding extermination of the Nephilim. I'm curious what arguments atheists have on this one because I've already heard the Christain perspective, but anyone can comment. Is this what the bible teaches? Or is there error morally and the God of the Old Testament really is a genocidal maniac? Thanks.

We don't need to argue against a completely arbitrary claim in a book. There was never any worldwide flood and there are no such things as nephilim. It's all a fairy tail. I would simply ask the Christian to tell you how you can reliably distinguish what he calls God from something he is merely imagining.

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12-09-2016, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 05:51 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
If Nephilim ever actually existed we'd probably have plenty of fossils to prove they were giants roaming the lands but we have yet to prove that and even if we did, that still wouldn't be evidence the Bible is historical fact.

One of the worst examples of God killing innocents is in Exodus when he hardens the Pharoah's heart so no matter what plagues rain down on him and his people he won't let the Isrealites go, ever, but then Yahweh goes ahead and kills all the first borns...when he could've just transported all the Jews to the promised land with a blink...or soften the Pharoah's heart to just let them go. But no, he's gotta kill little kids and babies, that's just the kind of guy he is.

Were all those "first borns" Nephilim or evil in some way, is there some explanation why he had to kill them and leave all the adults including the Pharaoh himself and the slave masters alive? Why did he have the Israelites kill an entire tribe who I guess were Nephilim but keep the virgin women for themselves? Were they supposed to be sex slaves, wives, servants? Why would God allow the virgins to be wives if they are Nephilim?

Really it's like arguing why did the Empire destroy all of Alderaan? Was every single person living there a rebel? We can share theories but it's still fantasy stories and there is no truth to it, in the end The Emperor was a fucking jerk in the story and so is Yahweh, no matter how you spin it, he's a fucking psychotic asshole with no respect for life, fuck that guy and fuck anyone who's trying to make excuses for him.

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12-09-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
(12-09-2016 01:55 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  Anyways his claim converning Noah's ark and the flood is that God isn't genocidal because he was killing off Nephilim in the flood and he uses the book of Enoch and jubilees to "prove" that.
Sorry, he proved that god killed Nephilim by referencng books of fairy tales?
Can I prove that Harry Potter knows magic and that magic is real by referencing the Harry Potter books?


(12-09-2016 01:55 PM)goldenarm Wrote:  He also says that anytime God ordered genocide of a nation in the Old Testament he is really just commanding extermination of the Nephilim.
Are there any more Nephilim around? Can we kill them too?
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12-09-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
I thought the Giants were in New York???

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12-09-2016, 07:39 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
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12-09-2016, 08:13 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
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12-09-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: A not so common defense of Christianity
Wait, I thought it was the curse of Cain that was the wickedness that was supposed to be wiped out, yet still wasn't because of idk, the other girls on the ark in this tale.

So there was also a giant woman... you know, you'd think that would also be another of the many Ark troubles.

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