A philosophical proposal
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21-07-2015, 08:29 PM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(13-07-2015 08:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(11-07-2015 05:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Of course philosophical is based on biological and needs and bases... but that doesn't answer the actual questions, that answers why you have the questions.

I can't give individual answers to all philosophical questions. You'll have to examine that yourself.

Archi

Yes, that's exactly what philosophy is.

All things of humanity are biological so it all comes from our biology.. this isn't really saying much, so what? Okay, well philosophy is still what it is. It's still lingering in the questions, of what BEING is? What is being conscious?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-07-2015, 04:10 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2015 04:13 AM by ArchibaldFunkdust.)
RE: A philosophical proposal
(21-07-2015 08:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(13-07-2015 08:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  I can't give individual answers to all philosophical questions. You'll have to examine that yourself.

Archi

Yes, that's exactly what philosophy is.

All things of humanity are biological so it all comes from our biology.. this isn't really saying much, so what? Okay, well philosophy is still what it is. It's still lingering in the questions, of what BEING is? What is being conscious?

Being is a state of existence, something exists when it has an identity in our minds, our minds arise from our biology.

Consciousness is a state of self-awareness caused by our biology.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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22-07-2015, 04:11 AM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 04:10 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  [quote='ClydeLee' pid='817623' dateline='1437532192']

Yes, that's exactly what philosophy is.

All things of humanity are biological so it all comes from our biology.. this isn't really saying much, so what? Okay, well philosophy is still what it is. It's still lingering in the questions, of what BEING is? What is being conscious?

Being is a state of existence, something exists when it has an identity in our minds, our minds arise from our biology.

Consciousness is a state of self-awareness caused by our biology.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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22-07-2015, 04:18 AM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 04:10 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 08:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes, that's exactly what philosophy is.

All things of humanity are biological so it all comes from our biology.. this isn't really saying much, so what? Okay, well philosophy is still what it is. It's still lingering in the questions, of what BEING is? What is being conscious?

Being is a state of existence, something exists when it has an identity in our minds, our minds arise from our biology.

Consciousness is a state of self-awareness caused by our biology.

Archi

It can answer these questions, it doesn't answer or add to the question of value. You can say, value is merely a concept of the mind brought up to add weight to emotional biological attachments. That's what value is, but it's not the added element such as why are you certain it is a particular way. How many preconceptions are we establishing when we use "labels" like being. Science/biology in every manner is a part of philosophy itself. They are betwixt when you step into the subset of knowledge.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-07-2015, 05:12 AM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 04:18 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 04:10 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  Being is a state of existence, something exists when it has an identity in our minds, our minds arise from our biology.

Consciousness is a state of self-awareness caused by our biology.

Archi

It can answer these questions, it doesn't answer or add to the question of value. You can say, value is merely a concept of the mind brought up to add weight to emotional biological attachments. That's what value is, but it's not the added element such as why are you certain it is a particular way. How many preconceptions are we establishing when we use "labels" like being. Science/biology in every manner is a part of philosophy itself. They are betwixt when you step into the subset of knowledge.

We can talk of knowledge like it's some kind of mythical entity but human knowledge doesn't exist outside of human biology. Knowledge and everything it comprises of comes directly from that biology, that particular genetic tide, and it has no meaning outside of that context.

The Universe values nothing... unless you're suggesting it does?

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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22-07-2015, 05:22 AM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 05:12 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 04:18 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It can answer these questions, it doesn't answer or add to the question of value. You can say, value is merely a concept of the mind brought up to add weight to emotional biological attachments. That's what value is, but it's not the added element such as why are you certain it is a particular way. How many preconceptions are we establishing when we use "labels" like being. Science/biology in every manner is a part of philosophy itself. They are betwixt when you step into the subset of knowledge.

We can talk of knowledge like it's some kind of mythical entity but human knowledge doesn't exist outside of human biology. Knowledge and everything it comprises of comes directly from that biology, that particular genetic tide, and it has no meaning outside of that context.

The Universe values nothing... unless you're suggesting it does?

Archi

I'm not sure how you would come to that, not at all. That's the point, humans through biology create something so what? People create the values and adjustably generate questions upon them.

People come up with questions and ideas that don't actually make sense as well.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-07-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 05:22 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 05:12 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  We can talk of knowledge like it's some kind of mythical entity but human knowledge doesn't exist outside of human biology. Knowledge and everything it comprises of comes directly from that biology, that particular genetic tide, and it has no meaning outside of that context.

The Universe values nothing... unless you're suggesting it does?

Archi

I'm not sure how you would come to that, not at all. That's the point, humans through biology create something so what? People create the values and adjustably generate questions upon them.

People come up with questions and ideas that don't actually make sense as well.

Human knowledge can only come from our biology, it cannot come from anywhere else. The questions we ask enhance that knowledge, they are searches for new or more accurate information to add to that knowledge. In the same way a dog searches a bin for food scraps, these strategies are opportunistic but still biologically founded.

Sometimes clever academic displays are just that, 'displays' and are designed to meet a different need. Not making sense does not negate these strategies, it illuminates their nature - opportunistic.

There is no such thing as a disinterested pursuit of knowledge, we all have an agenda, even if we are not consciously aware of it.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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22-07-2015, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2015 07:59 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 04:55 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 05:22 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not sure how you would come to that, not at all. That's the point, humans through biology create something so what? People create the values and adjustably generate questions upon them.

People come up with questions and ideas that don't actually make sense as well.

Human knowledge can only come from our biology, it cannot come from anywhere else. The questions we ask enhance that knowledge, they are searches for new or more accurate information to add to that knowledge. In the same way a dog searches a bin for food scraps, these strategies are opportunistic but still biologically founded.

Sometimes clever academic displays are just that, 'displays' and are designed to meet a different need. Not making sense does not negate these strategies, it illuminates their nature - opportunistic.

There is no such thing as a disinterested pursuit of knowledge, we all have an agenda, even if we are not consciously aware of it.

Archi

This is entirely false, this is the point. It's even possible to ask and ponder things that don't make sense, that don't add to knowledge that are misguided in reality.

Biology is where everything about us comes from, but our questioning isn't limited to things about our biology. Questioning if there may or not be an alternate multiverse of realities or if invisible dragons can be found in our garages are ideas pondered. Why we ask these questions, sure that is answerable. It comes across as believing biology and our existence is something perfectly formed to think because it formed us, it can answer all things of us. It's as flawed as anything else can be.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-07-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(22-07-2015 07:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 04:55 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  Human knowledge can only come from our biology, it cannot come from anywhere else. The questions we ask enhance that knowledge, they are searches for new or more accurate information to add to that knowledge. In the same way a dog searches a bin for food scraps, these strategies are opportunistic but still biologically founded.

Sometimes clever academic displays are just that, 'displays' and are designed to meet a different need. Not making sense does not negate these strategies, it illuminates their nature - opportunistic.

There is no such thing as a disinterested pursuit of knowledge, we all have an agenda, even if we are not consciously aware of it.

Archi

This is entirely false, this is the point. It's even possible to ask and ponder things that don't make sense, that don't add to knowledge that are misguided in reality.

Biology is where everything about us comes from, but our questioning isn't limited to things about our biology. Questioning if there may or not be an alternate multiverse of realities or if invisible dragons can be found in our garages are ideas pondered. Why we ask these questions, sure that is answerable. It comes across as believing biology and our existence is something perfectly formed to think because it formed us, it can answer all things of us. It's as flawed as anything else can be.

Do you agree we are fundamentally biological?

If you do then it is down to you to demonstrate how philosophical questions are not rooted in our biology. I am stating that they are all rooted in our biology (as stated in my OP) and that it is the nature of the question that determines which fundamental part of our biology that question is deployed to satisfy whether directly or indirectly as part of a more complex strategic deployment.

'Pondering ideas' is typical of the obfuscating language we use to hide our true nature, domain general strategic thinking has been around longer than civilization. Our ability to deploy strategies in novel situations is what makes us so successful as a species, this opportunism is the foundation of our evolutionary persistence, it is, if you want to deploy the type of language that props up our conceit, the secret of our success.

Being able to ask random philosophical question that are seemingly unrelated to our needs is a testament to how sophisticated our delusions have become in denying the fact we are animals. Part of that delusion is denying our biology, I mean, who wants to accept that whatever it is we do we are still at the mercy of evolutionary forces and no matter how clever we think we are getting, one day we will - and I'll bet my life on it - become extinct and there is nothing we can do about it.

So we seek the means to soften the blow, to give us cause to strive to live, we are victims of our own brilliance - prisoners of our understanding of the fragility of our existence. Civilization is about getting us as far away from the stink of our own shit as we can.

I'm happy to buy into that delusion but I'm not going to lie to myself about it.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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24-07-2015, 02:49 AM
RE: A philosophical proposal
(23-07-2015 04:36 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 07:55 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  This is entirely false, this is the point. It's even possible to ask and ponder things that don't make sense, that don't add to knowledge that are misguided in reality.

Biology is where everything about us comes from, but our questioning isn't limited to things about our biology. Questioning if there may or not be an alternate multiverse of realities or if invisible dragons can be found in our garages are ideas pondered. Why we ask these questions, sure that is answerable. It comes across as believing biology and our existence is something perfectly formed to think because it formed us, it can answer all things of us. It's as flawed as anything else can be.

Do you agree we are fundamentally biological?

If you do then it is down to you to demonstrate how philosophical questions are not rooted in our biology. I am stating that they are all rooted in our biology (as stated in my OP) and that it is the nature of the question that determines which fundamental part of our biology that question is deployed to satisfy whether directly or indirectly as part of a more complex strategic deployment.

'Pondering ideas' is typical of the obfuscating language we use to hide our true nature, domain general strategic thinking has been around longer than civilization. Our ability to deploy strategies in novel situations is what makes us so successful as a species, this opportunism is the foundation of our evolutionary persistence, it is, if you want to deploy the type of language that props up our conceit, the secret of our success.

Being able to ask random philosophical question that are seemingly unrelated to our needs is a testament to how sophisticated our delusions have become in denying the fact we are animals. Part of that delusion is denying our biology, I mean, who wants to accept that whatever it is we do we are still at the mercy of evolutionary forces and no matter how clever we think we are getting, one day we will - and I'll bet my life on it - become extinct and there is nothing we can do about it.

So we seek the means to soften the blow, to give us cause to strive to live, we are victims of our own brilliance - prisoners of our understanding of the fragility of our existence. Civilization is about getting us as far away from the stink of our own shit as we can.

I'm happy to buy into that delusion but I'm not going to lie to myself about it.

Archi

So what if we are fundamentally biological? The problem I have is merely you conclusion.. Because Philosophical questions can have no answer or make no sense biologically. They're not limited to biological reasoning in their answers.

Can biology answer all the why you asked or came up with those question answers, sure, but that's not your full conclusion. That's the process you state, that's fine. Your conclusion that it generates the potential to answer all philosophical questions is a bit of a leap to me.

Some philosophical questions aren't designed to have an answer. Like moral quandaries of the Trolley Problem. What's the right answer, moral action or moral guilt over letting 5 people die? It's not a certain answerable task via our biology because it questions the layers of our biology's urges for both self preservation & community assisting to help boost that self preservation. Other philosophical questions are such as, What is justified true belief? How do we qualify if we know it or not?

There's also nonsense questions like can Jesus microwave a burrito so hot even he can't eat it... obviously the joke one, but based off the can an Omnipotent being create a rock so heavy he can't lift it.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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