A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
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12-11-2015, 09:14 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 09:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  I have no evidence. I didn't even say that welders are in short supply. I only agreed with Marco that we need more welders than philosophers.

Thanks for at least admitting you pulled that out of your ass. As a guy who put himself through college working as a welder, I can tell you that you and Marco are completely full of shit. Many, many of the welding jobs are now held by his Mexican compatriots. I know for a fact that large companies brought Mexican workers up to the US for several months so that the guys of the line could train their replacements. After few months, the Mexicans were sent back to Mexico and the US worker was now out of a job. I hold absolutely nothing against these guys and neither did many of the workers who knew their fate and were asked by management to basically train themselves out of a job. The Mexican guys just wanted the work to feed their families, kind of like their US counterparts. I knew many of them who had this experience and I also saw it firsthand. It happened so often it made me sick. You have no damn idea what you're talking about, as usual.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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12-11-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 09:14 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Thanks for at least admitting you pulled that out of your ass.
No, I am not admitting this. You just pulled this claim out of your ass.
(12-11-2015 09:14 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  As a guy who put himself through college working as a welder, I can tell you that you and Marco are completely full of shit. Many, many of the welding jobs are now held by his Mexican compatriots. I know for a fact that large companies brought Mexican workers up to the US for several months so that the guys of the line could train their replacements. After few months, the Mexicans were sent back to Mexico and the US worker was now out of a job. I hold absolutely nothing against these guys and neither did many of the workers who knew their fate and were asked by management to basically train themselves out of a job. The Mexican guys just wanted the work to feed their families, kind of like their US counterparts. I knew many of them who had this experience and I also saw it firsthand. It happened so often it made me sick. You have no damn idea what you're talking about, as usual.
What Marco actually was saying is that we need more workers than philosophers.

English is my second language.
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12-11-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
Trade schools do have value and aren't all stigmatized in some manner that apparently that movement wants to view it as... As when people talk about sending folks to college or adjusting prices and options & availability that is also related.

If they're saying "university" they'll not be counting vocational schools.

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12-11-2015, 09:45 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 08:51 PM)julep Wrote:  Your English ranges from decent to abysmal (IMO because you are a Poe). Please
You judge my English. You are Moron. Only Morons do this.

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12-11-2015, 10:36 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 07:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I just had to share this gem.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...hinks.html

Dear Sen. Marco Rubio,

I’m writing to you instead of grading papers, because the only thing more tedious than grading, as any philosophy and religion professor will tell you, is finishing the dissertation that earned you the privilege.

I’m also writing this instead of working on a ludicrously specialized article that examines Grimms’ fairy tales—actually one fairy tale, Lucky Hans; indeed, importantly, Lucky Hans can be translated as Happy Hans because … screw it, anyone interested can just read the article if it ever comes out—I’m writing this instead of working on an article that only 10 people will see, reviewers included.

So yes, indeed, a lot of academia is useless bullshit. (Indeed, I’ve used indeed three times already. Academic writing is the best.) You made that clear in the fourth Republican presidential debate when you said that America needs “more welders and less philosophers” and complained that higher education is “outdated” and “doesn’t teach 21st-century skills.” I should just quit and live the good life, like my attorney, doctor, and investment banker classmates from college and graduate school (Stanford and the University of Chicago—what a colossal waste, right?) who defend innocents, save lives, and make tons of money and donate said money to all the causes I’d donate to if I weren’t wasting my education on a low-paying joke of a job. Maybe I should even become a politician, Mr. Rubio—surely our nation needs more of those?

But I won’t quit. I’d never quit. This job is awesome. Investment bankers would be lucky to have it. In fact, after this comes out and goes viral, droves of them will retire, seek jobs as adjunct philosophy professors, and the economy will improve slightly.

A key part of my job is identifying and fighting the stupid wherever it is found.
I won’t quit because my colleagues and I are part of a sacred order, bound to seek out and profess truth, no matter how complicated or unappealing that truth might be. The truth about evolution, for example—and why people like you, Sen. Rubio, seem incapable of believing in it.

I won’t quit because there’s no feeling like the one I get when a student says my class has changed his or her life. It’s as if I’ve performed alchemy or magic: With nothing more than a powerful set of symbols (and a PowerPoint), I can, on occasion, alter the very fabric of people’s reality. It’s like church, but for everyone.

Like any sacred order, academia suffers from the standard list of problems: corruption, superficiality, conservatism (of the generic, not political, kind), cumbersome bureaucracy, perpetual underfunding, self-doubt.

But I’m pretty damn sure the self-doubt is unwarranted, even in the case of the ever-beleaguered humanities. Because any student who has had the pleasure of taking a philosophy class knows that debating the merits of the humanities—debating the merits of anything, really—is itself a humanistic endeavor, and we ignore the rigorous study of proper argumentation at our own peril.

Maybe you just don’t care. Having watched the presidential debates, I think it’s safe to say that proper argumentation isn’t the highest value for you and your colleagues. In fact, humanities professors like me work against many of your core values. Explaining the origin and persistence of creationist pseudoscience? Religion and philosophy. Shutting down racists and sexists who explain discrimination with “natural differences”? Anthropology and history. We can’t take all the credit, of course, but the fact that the arc of history seems to bend toward justice is due, at least in part, to the efforts of humanities scholars.

Sen. Rubio, rants like yours about the uselessness of academe can be disheartening. (Same goes for you, President Obama, when you ignore the humanities and call only for more STEM education.) But if there’s anything we academics are able to do, it’s to recognize that these rants are poorly argued and lacking in evidence. Often they are the self-congratulatory blather of those whose success is predicated—in more and less obvious ways—on the existence of higher education, but who in hindsight credit that success solely to innate ability. In short, the rants are stupid, and a key part of my job is identifying and fighting the stupid wherever it is found.

So I won’t quit, even in the face of your derogatory comments. I won’t quit because without the institution for which I stand, history would be twisted and forgotten, arguments would devolve into shouting, and truth would lose its professional evangelists. Since I am certain of all this, I cherish my place in the ivory tower—which, contrary to popular belief, is located smack in the middle of the real world, where it continues its ancient mission of making that world a better, wiser place.

Can you say the same of your own mission, Sen. Rubio?

Considering this writer is a professor in a field of study dedicated to sound reasoning and argument, he has written fatuous crap not worth the electrons that carry his twaddle to the liberal audience of slate.com. His entire rant is a huge straw man argument.

Sen. Rubio did not once suggest that those who are in the profession of being a philosopher should quit, or somehow need to change their profession.

Sen. Rubio did not comment on the career satisfaction of philosophers.

Sen. Rubio also did not comment on the intrinsic value of the field of philosophy.
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12-11-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 09:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...
You judge my English. You are Moron. Only Morons do this.

You are a moron.

Oh! Oops.

Blush

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12-11-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
Them are some high-falutin' words by the philosopher, but the fact is that you cannot outsource welding to Jalalapur.

Take that, multinationals.
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13-11-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 09:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Welders will be the first to be replaced by robots and automation. Hell, they already are.

Before I read your second sentence, I was going to reply by saying "I've seen robot welders. They're ridiculously fast.".

Now, just wait until the philosophers are replaced:

(SMBC comic spoilered because of bigness)
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13-11-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
Anyone who thinks one job skill is enough is misinformed.




A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

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13-11-2015, 08:55 AM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2015 09:01 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: A philosophy professor responds to Marco Rubio
(12-11-2015 09:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-11-2015 09:14 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Thanks for at least admitting you pulled that out of your ass.
No, I am not admitting this. You just pulled this claim out of your ass.

Alla, when you say"
(12-11-2015 09:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  "I have no evidence."


and then continue with your claim, you are absolutely pulling it out of your butt. You are admitting this in your own words. I am aware than English is not your first language, but this is an admission. English IS my first language. I have firsthand knowledge of the fact that you are wrong. I also know that are statistics to support this as well if you care to do a little research.

(12-11-2015 09:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-11-2015 09:14 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  As a guy who put himself through college working as a welder, I can tell you that you and Marco are completely full of shit. Many, many of the welding jobs are now held by his Mexican compatriots. I know for a fact that large companies brought Mexican workers up to the US for several months so that the guys of the line could train their replacements. After few months, the Mexicans were sent back to Mexico and the US worker was now out of a job. I hold absolutely nothing against these guys and neither did many of the workers who knew their fate and were asked by management to basically train themselves out of a job. The Mexican guys just wanted the work to feed their families, kind of like their US counterparts. I knew many of them who had this experience and I also saw it firsthand. It happened so often it made me sick. You have no damn idea what you're talking about, as usual.
What Marco actually was saying is that we need more workers than philosophers.

If that is what he meant, then he should say that. It is EASY to get more workers. The problem is jobs. He is barking up the wrong tree.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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