A political dilemma about Human Logic
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31-08-2016, 06:37 AM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 04:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  That's not a rating of how actually safe the country is, but how safe people there say they feel.
Are you suggesting that there's not a direct correlation between the two? I think you would have a hard time arguing in favor of a position like that.

(31-08-2016 04:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And why do they feel that way?

You left out a part:

Crime in Syria is low, according to the U.S. State Department, "due to strong cultural mores against property crime and to the pervasive police and security presence throughout the country." Syria has been ruled under emergency law since 1963, which is when the ruling Ba'athists took power. While the State of Emergency is justified as a necessary response to external threats, it has been used by the Syrian state in order to enforce internal security as well. Global Top 5s is a monthly feature by RealClearWorld.com powered by Gallup's worldwide research.

Emphasis mine. They were a police state. Huzzah! Just what I want, in order to feel safe.
The study was conducted by an international research organization that doesn't have any ties to the Syrian government so I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. The citizens of Syria, the people who actually live there, felt safer than the people in your country did at the time despite living in a police state, your sarcastic remarks notwithstanding.

(31-08-2016 04:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And even with all that, they still had crimes that put them in the median for per-capita crime rates (the website didn't only cover murder; I simply focused on the issue that had been raised by Kerim) compared to other nations.
Then it would seem that you "left out" a part of your source as well. I doubt Kerim was talking about the murder rates of kids in US schools so statistics about theft, illicit drug use and the like should have been included in your post as well.

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31-08-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
@RocketSurgeon76

Anti Israel propaganda might make him anti semitic but it hardly can be blamed for him thinking that person explaining what Shoah was deny it.

Lack of knowledge or warped unferstanding could be explained by indoctrination, accusations like one I mentioned hovewer are result of simple stupidity I would say.

And I too think that it is too late. I decided to stop writing to him for this reason.


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31-08-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
I wasn't arguing over whether the poll was biased, only whether the question the poll was asking depicted the situation fairly. So yes, I'll make exactly that argument:

Whether one feels safe can have as much to do with propaganda as it does with actual danger. That's why I focused on the actual rates of crime, as opposed to perceptions of those rates. One example of this is the fact that in the USA, we think crime is getting steadily worse, when in reality it's been growing steadily better (I can link you to this, but it was recently discussed in another thread in which I believe you participated; please let me know if you'd rather have links) over the past few decades from its peak in the 1960s.

In the USA, we have an endless barrage of news that covers every sensational bad thing that happens. Our broadcasters make more money the more they can depict chaos. The rulers of Syria, having established a police state and attempting to justify its necessity, would be trying to emphasize what a safe country they have created, and would transmit propaganda to that effect. Consequently, the people would feel safer, regardless of the facts, just as ours feel that the danger is higher than it actually is.

Edit to Add: And I didn't leave anything out. I cited to one example and then I provided the link to all the information... if you want to see what the statistics are for theft, etc., all you have to do is click the link.

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31-08-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(30-08-2016 12:05 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:When two parties are in a discussion and one asserts a claim that the other disputes, the one who asserts has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim
[/quote]

Well, please tell me, from which source on your modern Bible I should find for you a proof that many thousands of Al-Qaeda terrorists with their well-known black flags were sent from Turkey to attack and take over the Syrian city 'Idleb'? Most of them, mainly their leaders are non-Syrian and coming from Chechnya and Afghanistan, for a few. But your bible insists that there is no Qaeda terrorists in Syria, just brave armed rebels looking for Freedom and Democracy.

Should I ignore the reality I live to please you and please the authors of your modern bible?

And in case, your bible admitted (at last, after 5 years of spreading the 9/11 terror in Syria) that Al-Qaeda does exist in Syria, could you explain to me why the 9/11 terrorists changed their mind after 10 years and started attacking millions of Syrians instead of millions of Americans (their real enemies as the White House proved on videos soon after 9/11/2001 based on solid evidence)?

Sorry, the rules of your modern god don't apply on me or anyone who looks for the whole truth; no matter what it could be.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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31-08-2016, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2016 12:37 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 11:32 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Well, please tell me, from which source on your modern Bible I should find for you a proof..
You make the claim, you give me anything that might convince me. Your word is not enough, particularly considering your stupidity and ignorance regarding ca. any topic anyone can conceive of.
So, do you have anything but your "logic"?


(31-08-2016 11:32 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Should I ignore the reality I live..
The "reality" you are living in is called "delusion" in every other place on this planet

(31-08-2016 11:32 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry, the rules of your modern god don't apply on me or anyone who looks for the whole truth; no matter what it could be.
Sorry but the rest of the world doesnt care for your rules. You are not to dictate the rules here or on any other place regarding epostemology, philosophy or science. These rules are common sense, someting you can google....oops, you dont accept any information but the one you make up.

P.S.: and please, pretty please stop fucking telling me i have a god. I am an atheist. Unlike you i dont believe in any shit i or anyone else makes up, i only believe things that i can confirm. Thankyouverymuch

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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31-08-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 12:01 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  P.S.: and please, pretty please stop fucking telling me i have a god. I am an atheist. Unlike you i dont believe in any shit i or anyone else makes up, i only believe things that i can confirm. Thankyouverymuch

Bob is disappoint. God is SLACK, SLACK is God.

#sigh
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31-08-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 03:23 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 02:27 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Thank you for being sincere and tell me what you were allowed to know about Syria.

Before opening the show of the CIA 9/11 terror by Obama in Syria too in March 2011, Syrians (as any foreign tourist confirms) were very proud for living in one of the safest countries in the world; day and night, on any street and road, even for kids and women. Sorry if you cannot even imagine how countries could be real safe if you live in America for example (where even kids may commit crimes in their schools). But this well-known truth about Syria was hidden not only on the internet but erased even in the minds of many young Syrians as well. So, no one can blame you now for your lack of knowledge about Syria and how it was... before applying on it the same American scenario that was applied on Iraq in year 2003.

Bullshit.

This kind of information is studied and published, you know.

Since you said, "Before 2011", I looked up crime statistics for Syria in 2010:


STAT
Violent crime > Murder rate
463 (36th out of 86)
Violent crime > Murder rate per million people
21.5 (55th out of 86)


http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info...Crime#2010

Now I'll freely grant that the United States is among the worst for violence (including rape and murder, especially gun murder), but Syria was far from the lost paradise you're trying to present.

If we're going to be talking about this, let's talk with honesty, shall we?

I wished you ask one tourist in the least if Syria wasn't like I described.

Let us not forget while I am a stranger to you, you cannot trust me more than you trust the authors of articles working for the international FREE news agencies and humanitarian organizations, for a few.

Truth be said, Syria was a paradise till the Hollywood international perfect crime was committed on 9/11/2001 to replace Communism with Terror of Al-Qaeda (or Islam, if you like).

After this tragic day (for the American people, not their men on power) the Syrian economy started degrading; mainly after the US occupation of Iraq in year 2003 under the pretext to save Iraqis from a dictator.
And since the Syrian government had to be involved in spreading the American 9/11 terror of Al-Qaeda, as all systems (claiming pro or anti) had to, it applies, besides the American sanctions against the Syrian people that started since early 80's, many economical restrictions, even on our trade with China to deteriorate even faster the economy of the country. This was among the preparations of the terror show that the country will be forced to live and be opened in March 2011 by Obama against the Syrian people; as Bush junior did to people in Iraq.

For instance, were the French people non-civilized, before WW2, to deserve being attacked by the civilized Germany in WW2?
I mean; the creators of wars can find always SOLID pretexts to justify their diabolic plans against this or that country (since their great success on 9/11/2001... all their terror against civilians could be justified in their endless series 'War on Terror').

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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31-08-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 10:43 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I wasn't arguing over whether the poll was biased, only whether the question the poll was asking depicted the situation fairly. So yes, I'll make exactly that argument:

Whether one feels safe can have as much to do with propaganda as it does with actual danger. That's why I focused on the actual rates of crime, as opposed to perceptions of those rates. One example of this is the fact that in the USA, we think crime is getting steadily worse, when in reality it's been growing steadily better (I can link you to this, but it was recently discussed in another thread in which I believe you participated; please let me know if you'd rather have links) over the past few decades from its peak in the 1960s.

In the USA, we have an endless barrage of news that covers every sensational bad thing that happens. Our broadcasters make more money the more they can depict chaos. The rulers of Syria, having established a police state and attempting to justify its necessity, would be trying to emphasize what a safe country they have created, and would transmit propaganda to that effect. Consequently, the people would feel safer, regardless of the facts, just as ours feel that the danger is higher than it actually is.

Edit to Add: And I didn't leave anything out. I cited to one example and then I provided the link to all the information... if you want to see what the statistics are for theft, etc., all you have to do is click the link.
Can you present any concrete evidence that supports your Syrian propaganda hypothesis or is it based on speculation alone? Maybe the reason why people over there used to feel much safer than people in the US and elsewhere did at the time is because all types of crime occur at vastly lower rates in Syria according to the website you cited. The US isn't just a disaster when it comes to violent crime like assault, rape and murder, it's the same with other types of crimes like the following:

Auto theft
Syria: 4.5 per 100k
USA: 390.2 per 100k

Burglaries
Syria: 14.1 per 100k
USA: 714.4 per 100k

Robberies
Syria: 4.3 per 100k
USA: 146.4 per 100k

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info...ates/Crime

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31-08-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 01:31 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 10:43 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I wasn't arguing over whether the poll was biased, only whether the question the poll was asking depicted the situation fairly. So yes, I'll make exactly that argument:

Whether one feels safe can have as much to do with propaganda as it does with actual danger. That's why I focused on the actual rates of crime, as opposed to perceptions of those rates. One example of this is the fact that in the USA, we think crime is getting steadily worse, when in reality it's been growing steadily better (I can link you to this, but it was recently discussed in another thread in which I believe you participated; please let me know if you'd rather have links) over the past few decades from its peak in the 1960s.

In the USA, we have an endless barrage of news that covers every sensational bad thing that happens. Our broadcasters make more money the more they can depict chaos. The rulers of Syria, having established a police state and attempting to justify its necessity, would be trying to emphasize what a safe country they have created, and would transmit propaganda to that effect. Consequently, the people would feel safer, regardless of the facts, just as ours feel that the danger is higher than it actually is.

Edit to Add: And I didn't leave anything out. I cited to one example and then I provided the link to all the information... if you want to see what the statistics are for theft, etc., all you have to do is click the link.
Can you present any concrete evidence that supports your Syrian propaganda hypothesis or is it based on speculation alone? Maybe the reason why people over there used to feel much safer than people in the US and elsewhere did at the time is because all types of crime occur at vastly lower rates in Syria according to the website you cited. The US isn't just a disaster when it comes to violent crime like assault, rape and murder, it's the same with other types of crimes like the following:

Auto theft
Syria: 4.5 per 100k
USA: 390.2 per 100k

Burglaries
Syria: 14.1 per 100k
USA: 714.4 per 100k

Robberies
Syria: 4.3 per 100k
USA: 146.4 per 100k

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info...ates/Crime

Sounds like you've found your next home state. I'm guessing those numbers also beat the Czech Republic's. And how many people in Syria actually have autos or any damn thing else worth stealing?

#sigh
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31-08-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: A political dilemma about Human Logic
(31-08-2016 01:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sounds like you've found your next home state. I'm guessing those numbers also beat the Czech Republic's. And how many people in Syria actually have autos or any damn thing else worth stealing?
I don't know if you're being serious or not, but just in case you are, this is what Damascus looked like before the war:

[Image: SQO1Rn.jpg] [Image: dWImVM.jpg]
[Image: y13Csi.jpg] [Image: b6m5Pn.jpg]

Syria and Libya used to look a lot like the rest of the modern world before the West decided to bomb them to pieces. The before-and-after pictures are very tragic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j...r-pictures

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