A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
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21-03-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 11:38 AM)Sam Wrote:  It's not so much that God allows evil to happen, but in the Bible he commands it, and commits atrocities himself.

What could the population of earth have done to deserve the almost complete annihilation of the species?

I think this highlights the contradictory nature of this particular god concept. Why would a being of inconceivable power lower himself to be offended, angered, regretful or jealous of anything we lowly humans do?

Infinite grandeur is contrasted with an infinite pettiness and vulnerability to being affected by our petty acts on this insignificant planet.

This alone is enough to disregard this god concept as so fundamentally flawed that it can be disregarded. It's merely a reflection of the flawed and petty nature of the savages who created this myth, they created a god just as flawed and petty as they were.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-03-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 11:41 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just chalk it all up to mythology.

It's all been done long before the bible. Drinking Beverage

Ding ding ding!!
We have a winner!!!!!

....

Anyone who thinks that something is authoritative simply because it is written down hasn't looked around much in a supermarket checkout line.....

"Bat Boy in the White House" was always a favorite of mine - right ahead of that "Noah's Ark" bit......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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21-03-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 12:52 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(21-03-2015 11:41 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just chalk it all up to mythology.

It's all been done long before the bible. Drinking Beverage

Ding ding ding!!
We have a winner!!!!!

....

Anyone who thinks that something is authoritative simply because it is written down hasn't looked around much in a supermarket checkout line.....

"Bat Boy in the White House" was always a favorite of mine - right ahead of that "Noah's Ark" bit......

You must have missed the "Woman Turns to Stone After Eating Dirt for 30 Years" issue. I came real close to buying that one.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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21-03-2015, 07:30 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
It just seems to me that the god of the bible has morality that of a human .. who needs a faulty god like that .. i might aswell worship santa claus. At least he hasn't killed anybody and he gives gifts without molesting kids.
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21-03-2015, 10:27 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 07:30 PM)d4w6zBak Wrote:  It just seems to me that the god of the bible has morality that of a human .. who needs a faulty god like that .. i might aswell worship santa claus. At least he hasn't killed anybody and he gives gifts without molesting kids.

and coal is a justifiable punishment for misbehaving little kids and the coal can be used for something practical
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22-03-2015, 07:55 AM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 06:51 AM)cactus Wrote:  which is of course ignoring all that bad stuff that God himself did, or ordered people to do.

This is the key point - the Bible documents acts of god that either:
a) Did not happen, rendering the Bible fallible
b) Happened but were immoral, rendering God immoral, or
c) Happened but were "moral" in a sense that no-one can explain, and which leaves apologists justifying slavery, murder, genocide, torture, rape... things that we can only admit are moral by discarding our own humanity in the name of a depraved religion. A religion with a better book or a better edited book would be harder to dismiss so absolutely.

(21-03-2015 06:51 AM)cactus Wrote:  Has anyone here felt like they've been able to use "a perfect God wouldn't have allowed his people to do evil things"
No - I don't think this argument makes sense unless you are addressing specific people or actions endorsed by God. For example you could say that a perfect God wouldn't have rewarded a psychopath like Abraham who was willing to kill his own child on the instruction of voices in his head.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-03-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(21-03-2015 11:38 AM)Sam Wrote:  It's not so much that God allows evil to happen, but in the Bible he commands it, and commits attrocities himself.

What could the population of earth have done to deserve the almost complete annihilation of the species?

Actually, the Bible has an answer to that. It's in the Book of Job. For those who don't remember the story, I'll summarize:

Job is an upright and good man who fears God and does what God wants him to do. Satan taunts God, saying that the only reason Job is good is because God has given him so much stuff. Wives, children, cattle, good health, etc. So they make a bet: God lets Satan take everything away from Job to prove that even if he was poor and miserable Job would be Godfearing and good.

Here's the interesting part:

When Job has been reduced to utter misery, when God has allowed Satan to kill all of Job's cattle and wives and children and afflict him with pus-oozing boils, Job asks God why he's done all this to him.

And God replies (I paraphrase here) :

"I am God. I made leviathan. You're nothing but a worm and I'll squish you beneath my boot if I feel like it."

The God of the Bible doesn't give two cents for humankind. He wants us to fear him and obey him. The NT says he knows when a sparrow falls, but it doesn't say he cares. Or maybe he cares about the sparrow, but he sure doesn't care about us.

In the end of the story as the modern Bible has it, God restores Job to health and gives him new cattle, new wives, and new kids, and figures that Job can just forget about the dead wives and kids, or at least Job knows better than to complain about them. There are textual reasons for arguing that this version is a later revision; that in the original version of the story, Job dies sick, miserable, and destitute.

So to answer Sam's question in the quote at the beginning of this post: What could the people of Earth have done to deserve all that? The answer from the Bible is: Nothing. God just felt like it. Fear him.

It's times like these when I find atheism to be a lot more comforting than religion.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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22-03-2015, 11:31 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
(22-03-2015 11:23 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  
(21-03-2015 11:38 AM)Sam Wrote:  It's not so much that God allows evil to happen, but in the Bible he commands it, and commits attrocities himself.

What could the population of earth have done to deserve the almost complete annihilation of the species?

Actually, the Bible has an answer to that. It's in the Book of Job. For those who don't remember the story, I'll summarize:

Job is an upright and good man who fears God and does what God wants him to do. Satan taunts God, saying that the only reason Job is good is because God has given him so much stuff. Wives, children, cattle, good health, etc. So they make a bet: God lets Satan take everything away from Job to prove that even if he was poor and miserable Job would be Godfearing and good.

Here's the interesting part:

When Job has been reduced to utter misery, when God has allowed Satan to kill all of Job's cattle and wives and children and afflict him with pus-oozing boils, Job asks God why he's done all this to him.

And God replies (I paraphrase here) :

"I am God. I made leviathan. You're nothing but a worm and I'll squish you beneath my boot if I feel like it."

The God of the Bible doesn't give two cents for humankind. He wants us to fear him and obey him. The NT says he knows when a sparrow falls, but it doesn't say he cares. Or maybe he cares about the sparrow, but he sure doesn't care about us.

In the end of the story as the modern Bible has it, God restores Job to health and gives him new cattle, new wives, and new kids, and figures that Job can just forget about the dead wives and kids, or at least Job knows better than to complain about them. There are textual reasons for arguing that this version is a later revision; that in the original version of the story, Job dies sick, miserable, and destitute.

So to answer Sam's question in the quote at the beginning of this post: What could the people of Earth have done to deserve all that? The answer from the Bible is: Nothing. God just felt like it. Fear him.

It's times like these when I find atheism to be a lot more comforting than religion.

so this story is riddled with forgery as well, like the rest of the damn book
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23-03-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
Only the ending has been altered. The stuff God says to Job would convince any semi-rational person that the God of the OT and the God of the NT are totally different gods.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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23-03-2015, 06:35 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2015 04:48 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: A popular method of "debunking" the Bible that I still don't get
I always enjoy the exodus myth of the bible, where god had to send ten plagues against the all powerful pharoah in an attempt to convince him to let god's people go free....wait, isn't god all powerful? Couldnt he have just wiggled his nose and POOF bye bye pharaoh?... nope apparently not, it took the tenth plague of all first born to die in order for the pharoah to submit and "allow" the slaves to go free, then they lined up 10 abreast and marched across a 119 mile desert 2 million strong for 40 years, they must have been marching in a huge circle, but even if they were, imagine a line 10 wide by 2 million people, oh wait....there also exists ZERO evidence for this ever happening, I know, shocking right? Of course the front line would have made it to the promised land while the back of the line was still in Eygpt Laugh out load

ahhhh you just can't make this shit up...oh no wait...apparently you can Big Grin

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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