A psychological profile of a believer.
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07-08-2012, 11:59 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2012 12:05 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.













We have discussed before that the things offered by religion are not really lost to non-believers, just because beliefs in non-existent beings are given up. That thread exists already somewhere.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-08-2012, 12:23 PM
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 11:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(07-08-2012 11:11 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  I was reading prayer requests on a christian forum. It seems to me the desperation expressed there is immense.

Yes.

There are lots of frivolous prayers to mock, like praying to find lost keys or a parking spot near the door. But when you go deeper...desperation is a good description. We laugh at a lot of the efforts of Believers, but there truly is a lot of pain that gets expressed along with the hope that The Deity will intervene.
Imagine being in that place without the personal skills to realize the answer lies within, not from an external locus of control. It's a pity, really. I'm still on the journey to remove myself from wishful thinking. Not that I ever pray, but there are still times when I get stuck wishing hope will come from some sort of outside source. Instead of finding internal resources, I'll slip into despair because no help is on the way, not yet having fully learned I can take care of myself completely. Interesting for me to contemplate for a bit. Consider

In The Grapes of Wrath, Steinbeck addresses desperation and what people will give up when forced to and what they cling to. He depicts people at their personal crossroad; hardship, the realization of illusion, and the rituals and psychology which reinforces illusion.

Nope - can't just see the movie - they are in no way similar. By the way; the book has been banned several times for different things... blasphemy, among them. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-08-2012, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2012 01:26 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 11:59 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  












We have discussed before that the things offered by religion are not really lost to non-believers, just because beliefs in non-existent beings are given up. That thread exists already somewhere.

These videos had little to offer what I was trying to explain. The effects of religion on the mind of a religious person.

I've watched these and they didn't explain what I was looking for. What you never see, is the psychological result of belief. How it impacts people's lives, and why we consider it a bad thing.

The point of the research is to find all the bad points, see how it effects people and then try to find the solutions, which I hope to post in another thread.

That why we can have something to work off of for people recovering from religion.

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07-08-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 12:23 PM)kim Wrote:  
(07-08-2012 11:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Yes.

There are lots of frivolous prayers to mock, like praying to find lost keys or a parking spot near the door. But when you go deeper...desperation is a good description. We laugh at a lot of the efforts of Believers, but there truly is a lot of pain that gets expressed along with the hope that The Deity will intervene.
Imagine being in that place without the personal skills to realize the answer lies within, not from an external locus of control. It's a pity, really. I'm still on the journey to remove myself from wishful thinking. Not that I ever pray, but there are still times when I get stuck wishing hope will come from some sort of outside source. Instead of finding internal resources, I'll slip into despair because no help is on the way, not yet having fully learned I can take care of myself completely. Interesting for me to contemplate for a bit. Consider

In The Grapes of Wrath, Steinbeck addresses desperation and what people will give up when forced to and what they cling to. He depicts people at their personal crossroad; hardship, the realization of illusion, and the rituals and psychology which reinforces illusion.

Nope - can't just see the movie - they are in no way similar. By the way; the book has been banned several times for different things... blasphemy, among them. Shy

I think I saw the Veggie Tales version. It rocked. Thumbsup

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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07-08-2012, 01:36 PM
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
What's Veggie Tales? Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-08-2012, 01:52 PM
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 01:36 PM)kim Wrote:  What's Veggie Tales? Shy




Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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07-08-2012, 01:57 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2012 02:13 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 11:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(07-08-2012 11:11 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  I was reading prayer requests on a christian forum. It seems to me the desperation expressed there is immense.

Yes.

There are lots of frivolous prayers to mock, like praying to find lost keys or a parking spot near the door. But when you go deeper...desperation is a good description. We laugh at a lot of the efforts of Believers, but there truly is a lot of pain that gets expressed along with the hope that The Deity will intervene.
Imagine being in that place without the personal skills to realize the answer lies within, not from an external locus of control. It's a pity, really. I'm still on the journey to remove myself from wishful thinking. Not that I ever pray, but there are still times when I get stuck wishing hope will come from some sort of outside source. Instead of finding internal resources, I'll slip into despair because no help is on the way, not yet having fully learned I can take care of myself completely. Interesting for me to contemplate for a bit. Consider

It's really hard emotionally to be desperate with prayer, knowing god can changes things at his whim, and then get nothing.

I would argue that where God and prayer where we should begin to use each other.
http://recoveringfromreligion.org/pages/home

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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07-08-2012, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2012 02:19 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: A psychological profile of a believer.
OK, just wanted to know if you had looked at them.

To you first point, I think there is a certain element... well scratch that.
There are two additional elements that perhaps you cover already, or not, and you can see what you think.
a. There seems to be an element of desire, or implied "hero worship", or an assumption that "they" or "those in power" (ie the teachers/"priestly class") are :
1. well intentioned, (a need for "benevolent parental figures")
2. actually know something, or possess some important detail(s), the "laity" do not have. ("the secret knowledge of priests").
(is this increased in cultures where "celebrities" are worshiped, or is it just the result of a personal history of just not having met enough "stupid" celebrities, (yet), and not generalizing the experience)?

b. There seems to be a higher Gestalt imaging ability, and an ability, (or just habit) to overlook, (or not to deconstruct), the whole, into parts.

c. A "grouping" desire, (such as obtaining satisfaction group identity from "crowd like" events, such as going to church, football games, and other group identifiers.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-08-2012, 06:08 PM
A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 01:36 PM)kim Wrote:  What's Veggie Tales? Shy

You poor thing.
You call yourself a vegetarian and you don't even know about Larry the Cucumber and Bob the Tomato?
I'll pray for you.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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07-08-2012, 06:09 PM
A psychological profile of a believer.
(07-08-2012 01:52 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(07-08-2012 01:36 PM)kim Wrote:  What's Veggie Tales? Shy




I hadn't heard this one. My fave to this day is the Hairbrush Song. Thumbsup

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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