A question for atheists.
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09-03-2014, 01:04 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 01:08 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 12:52 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 12:27 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  All atheists have insisted that you back your fairy tale claims with evidence? If so, then rightly so.

So I wasn't strawmanning, then. Correct? Since it is based solely on my personal experience.

Whether you strawman us based on your "personal experiences" or on something else doesn't change that you are strawmanning.

Quote:
(08-03-2014 11:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I will post in whatever thread I choose.

Then don't complain as if I am forcing you to do anything.

Don't tell me what to do. I am not "complaining". I am jacking up a troll.

Quote:
(08-03-2014 11:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I'm not strawmanning X-tardianity at all when I point out that it's a bunch of fairy tales.

No, but you'd be strawmanning me by assuming I am a Christian.

You think so? You got all stupid about me calling you an Xtard. That was my first HUGE clue. That is, aside from your cliche'd and hackneyed xtard tactic of wading into an atheist forum trying to shift your burden of proof. Of course, you are trying to hide your beliefs as part of your failing strategy to shift the burden of proof. So if I'm strawmanning you, then quit being a chickenshit and declare your fairy tale beliefs.

Quote:
(08-03-2014 11:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  My position is that I don't believe in fairy tales. Including x-tard fairy tales. All you are doing is trying to shift the burden of proof. We don't have to make a proposition at all. I don't believe your fairy tales any more than you as an X-tard believe Hindu or Tibetan Lamaist fairy tales. You are just as much an atheist regarding their fairy tales as I am regarding yours.

That's a description of your disbelief, but not why you are so confident in your atheist position.

Have you or anyone else provided a shred of credible evidence to support whatever bullshit fairytale claims you make? THERE is my confidence.

Evidence or STFU.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-03-2014, 01:10 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 01:04 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Evidence or STFU.

Taq, this is a forum. A forum is for exchanging ideas, not ultimatums.

Stop stifling the flow of information. I appreciate the zeal, but goddamnit, you have ruined more than one opportunity for productive discourse.

No one needs to STFU, you need to CTFO.

(that's Chill The Fuck Out)

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-03-2014, 01:18 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 01:10 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 01:04 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Evidence or STFU.

Taq, this is a forum. A forum is for exchanging ideas, not ultimatums.

Stop stifling the flow of information. I appreciate the zeal, but goddamnit, you have ruined more than one opportunity for productive discourse.

No one needs to STFU, you need to CTFO.

(that's Chill The Fuck Out)

Pffffffft. Just another troll. How productive is the ten billionth idiot wandering in here trying to shift the burden of proof. You wanna play pattycake with the troll, have fun. Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-03-2014, 01:22 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 01:28 AM by DLJ.)
RE: A question for atheists.
(08-03-2014 10:28 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  ...
What positive argument(s) or evidence(s) do you have which may convince a theist to change their minds?
...

For the more dogmatically entrenched (very early indoctrination, much misinformation, massive confirmation bias (i.e. growing up in an officially muslim country)) the cognitive dissonance is a huge challenge to overcome so it's usually a very slow process.

The kick-start is usually this question:
If you had been raised in different part of the world (different parents, different culture) what religion do you think you would be following?

Or even more gently:
What do you think children grow up believing when each parent belongs to different religions?

These are usually good triggers to start a critical-thinking process which tbh, many have never tried before.

This then leads to...

(08-03-2014 11:54 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Comparative religions.
...

It's down-hill from there.

The aggressive approach never works but sometimes a little gentle ridiculing is a good way to unwrap some of the cotton wool they have been wrapped in as it brings the realisation that their's is not the only world view.

For those already on the fence, one can talk about evolution etc. and all the usual stuff.
Often, there is one key thing like 'fear of death' so it's easy to target these things with yer typical rationality.

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09-03-2014, 01:23 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 01:18 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...

Pffffffft. Just another troll. How productive is the ten billionth idiot wandering in here trying to shift the burden of proof. You wanna play pattycake with the troll, have fun. Hobo

Once again, you are forgetting the wider audience.

Facepalm

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09-03-2014, 01:30 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 01:18 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Pffffffft. Just another troll. How productive is the ten billionth idiot wandering in here trying to shift the burden of proof. You wanna play pattycake with the troll, have fun. Hobo

So you're just havin' a wank at the keyboard. Seems to be all you do 'round here.

Every person with an opinion that differs from yours is a troll, and we all suffer the consequences of your fetish. I give no fucks about your angst, I like to engage in discussion. Discussion spreads knowledge, knowledge spreads confidence, confidence spreads people realizing that we need to be treating eachother with a modicum of mutually respectful empathy if we're ever gonna become better than we are.

You seem hell bent against that with the way you treat people, and I have a problem with that.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-03-2014, 01:38 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 01:41 AM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: A question for atheists.
Taq, you are actually a fucking idiot. You swooped in with your preprogrammed ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK button while completely misinterpreting the purpose of shimmy's question.

She's not here to shift burden of proof, she's interested in what WE think COULD possibly change a theist's mind or at least get them to consider a different perspective. You strawmanned this based on the unwarranted assumption that she was interested in a debate and that she's going to shoot back with some dismissal. She's not even asking us to CHANGE HER MIND. In fact she displayed interest in Mom's answer, another thing you completely ignored.

Switch off your belligerent tunnel vision mode and learn how to improve your reading comprehension.

[Image: giphy.gif]
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09-03-2014, 01:38 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(09-03-2014 01:22 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-03-2014 10:28 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  ...
What positive argument(s) or evidence(s) do you have which may convince a theist to change their minds?
...

For the more dogmatically entrenched (very early indoctrination, much misinformation, massive confirmation bias (i.e. growing up in an officially muslim country)) the cognitive dissonance is a huge challenge to overcome so it's usually a very slow process.

The kick-start is usually this question:
If you had been raised in different part of the world (different parents, different culture) what religion do you think you would be following?

Or even more gently:
What do you think children grow up believing when each parent belongs to different religions?

These are usually good triggers to start a critical-thinking process which tbh, many have never tried before.

This then leads to...

(08-03-2014 11:54 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Comparative religions.
...

It's down-hill from there.

The aggressive approach never works but sometimes a little gentle ridiculing is a good way to unwrap some of the cotton wool they have been wrapped in as it brings the realisation that their's is not the only world view.

For those already on the fence, one can talk about evolution etc. and all the usual stuff.
Often, there is one key thing like 'fear of death' so it's easy to target these things with yer typical rationality.
*screams and bounces up and down* THIS! THIS! THIS! ^^^

Ok, settling down now, sorry bout that.
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09-03-2014, 01:43 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(08-03-2014 11:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Everyone comes to agnosticism or atheism from different directions and on their own terms. Some take a short time, others take decades.

Few of us came to atheism the same way (unlike religion when most are indoctrinated into).

I came into atheism via mythology and sociology/anthropology. What worked for me, wouldn't work well for someone who doesn't at least share the interest.

This is a great post. I agree that we can offer personal insight to theists but it is a long (personal and unique) path to freedom, not without its struggles but SO worth it when you get to the other side. :-)

The beauty of the heart, is the lasting beauty. - Rumi Heart
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09-03-2014, 01:46 AM
RE: A question for atheists.
(08-03-2014 10:28 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  What positive argument(s) or evidence(s) do you have which may convince a theist to change their minds?

Note: I'm not asking you for reasons that COMPEL the theist to change their minds, but rather for reasons that COULD change their minds.
Well unfortunately i do not know of a single thing which can convince or compel people who have rigid,concrete beliefs about how the world works most of the time when i come up with an argument IRL with my family they just disregard the contradictory evidence,try to evade tough questions or simply don't answer.

I don't know what type of approach it takes to convince someone that supernatural is not real and reality is all that exists.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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