A question that every theist should be asked
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05-10-2014, 11:29 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
My favorite question to ask is the question of belief of command.

In the holy book of whatever religion you are from. Not one single person questions whether or not god commanded people to rape, murder, genocide or do other bad things. When someone spoke for god, everyone back then and today believes it if its in the bible then it is infallible and cannot possibly be wrong. Therefor, every murder in the name of god or in every story where someone killed or committed genocide in order to have a woman as his propriety.

So why is it that if anyone does this today, which CANNOT be included in the bible on the fly in order to "make" it true.
Why does no one believe them?

Follow up question: Why does the bible only include texted from that far back? Why not events happening today? When we have science and internet to confirm the true origins when "god" turns someone into salt or tries to drown the world.


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05-10-2014, 11:40 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(05-10-2014 11:29 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  My favorite question to ask is the question of belief of command.

In the holy book of whatever religion you are from. Not one single person questions whether or not god commanded people to rape, murder, genocide or do other bad things. When someone spoke for god, everyone back then and today believes it if its in the bible then it is infallible and cannot possibly be wrong. Therefor, every murder in the name of god or in every story where someone killed or committed genocide in order to have a woman as his propriety.

So why is it that if anyone does this today, which CANNOT be included in the bible on the fly in order to "make" it true.
Why does no one believe them?

Follow up question: Why does the bible only include texted from that far back? Why not events happening today? When we have science and internet to confirm the true origins when "god" turns someone into salt or tries to drown the world.

This is a good question. Humans have been around for about 180,000 years and yet Christians claim he waited until 2000 years ago to send an emissary. Why not wait a mere 2,000 more for youtube to be invented. I'd imagine the resurrection would go viral.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-10-2014, 05:49 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(05-10-2014 11:40 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 11:29 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  My favorite question to ask is the question of belief of command.

In the holy book of whatever religion you are from. Not one single person questions whether or not god commanded people to rape, murder, genocide or do other bad things. When someone spoke for god, everyone back then and today believes it if its in the bible then it is infallible and cannot possibly be wrong. Therefor, every murder in the name of god or in every story where someone killed or committed genocide in order to have a woman as his propriety.

So why is it that if anyone does this today, which CANNOT be included in the bible on the fly in order to "make" it true.
Why does no one believe them?

Follow up question: Why does the bible only include texted from that far back? Why not events happening today? When we have science and internet to confirm the true origins when "god" turns someone into salt or tries to drown the world.

This is a good question. Humans have been around for about 180,000 years and yet Christians claim he waited until 2000 years ago to send an emissary. Why not wait a mere 2,000 more for youtube to be invented. I'd imagine the resurrection would go viral.

You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2014, 06:57 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(06-10-2014 05:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 11:40 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  This is a good question. Humans have been around for about 180,000 years and yet Christians claim he waited until 2000 years ago to send an emissary. Why not wait a mere 2,000 more for youtube to be invented. I'd imagine the resurrection would go viral.

You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication

Yeah just imagine Jesus feeding the 5,000 and 5,000 cell phones come out to record the event. With Youtube, Twitter, instagram, and facebook it would be all over the world in seconds. Not to mention security cameras on every corner. Traffic and dashboard cameras and go pro cameras are everywhere. There'd be wall to wall coverage 24 hours a day. What is Jesus eating for lunch today. What is he wearing to the Resurrection.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-10-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(06-10-2014 06:57 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  What is he wearing to the Resurrection.

Sandals and socks the fucking savage!

#Ican'teven

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07-10-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(05-10-2014 08:00 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  If you want to get right to the heart of the issue with theists ask them how one can reliably distinguish between what they are calling "God" and something they may be simply imagining. Actually there is a follow up question as well: if something is indistinguishable from something that is only imaginary, isn't it imaginary?

I've yet to get a cogent answer to this question from a theist. What I get is anger which tells me I've really hit home.

I'm sorry you've gotten unclear answers or anger in the past. I would say I had some notions about God but then read the Bible and explored. The Bible was not a product of my imagination but either products of others' imaginations, 100% true cover-to-cover, or somewhere in between. The Bible offers tests so one can verify.

Since I began I'd say I've had many answers/responses from God that I know come from God because they fit the Bible. The Bible has some "do this, then that will happen" tests that one may employ.

For example, I haven't imagined giving away money (tithing/offering) to have my living and financial needs met--rather than spending my money to have my mere living needs met. One is natural, one is unnatural or if you like, supernatural.

I'd heard growing up (many millennia ago now as you'd reckon it in your Earth years) that The Q use the hypothesis method of assuming something might or could be true, then testing it, then confirming or moving on. God offers tests for seekers. Again, I find that the giving away of dollars leads to return dollars so I put my "money where my mouth is".

Have you done the same? Tested the Lord per the Bible's standards? Please, not the (as I hear it often from atheists) "There is no God because He didn't answer my prayer for a family member to get well when I was five years old" unless you can also add the Bible standards of fervent prayer, praying per God's will, praying while having faith, etc. I know these three are beyond the reach of most of those on this forum at present (!) - I say that respectfully, you don't want to do those three things - so I'd love to hear about people who are atheists after having first having been tithing Christians. Could be interesting.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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07-10-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(07-10-2014 02:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 08:00 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  If you want to get right to the heart of the issue with theists ask them how one can reliably distinguish between what they are calling "God" and something they may be simply imagining. Actually there is a follow up question as well: if something is indistinguishable from something that is only imaginary, isn't it imaginary?

I've yet to get a cogent answer to this question from a theist. What I get is anger which tells me I've really hit home.

I'm sorry you've gotten unclear answers or anger in the past. I would say I had some notions about God but then read the Bible and explored. The Bible was not a product of my imagination but either products of others' imaginations, 100% true cover-to-cover, or somewhere in between. The Bible offers tests so one can verify.

Since I began I'd say I've had many answers/responses from God that I know come from God because they fit the Bible. The Bible has some "do this, then that will happen" tests that one may employ.

For example, I haven't imagined giving away money (tithing/offering) to have my living and financial needs met--rather than spending my money to have my mere living needs met. One is natural, one is unnatural or if you like, supernatural.

I'd heard growing up (many millennia ago now as you'd reckon it in your Earth years) that The Q use the hypothesis method of assuming something might or could be true, then testing it, then confirming or moving on. God offers tests for seekers. Again, I find that the giving away of dollars leads to return dollars so I put my "money where my mouth is".

Have you done the same? Tested the Lord per the Bible's standards? Please, not the (as I hear it often from atheists) "There is no God because He didn't answer my prayer for a family member to get well when I was five years old" unless you can also add the Bible standards of fervent prayer, praying per God's will, praying while having faith, etc. I know these three are beyond the reach of most of those on this forum at present (!) - I say that respectfully, you don't want to do those three things - so I'd love to hear about people who are atheists after having first having been tithing Christians. Could be interesting.

I tithed 20% for a period of time, I noticed nothing really coming into my pocket as a result. I then pulled out of church and stopped tithing, I noticed nothing except more money in my wallet. You are indulging in confirmation bias.

I tested your proposition, your god failed miserably. Or to put it better, the power that you think confirms your god is only in one's imagination or perception.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-10-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
Also, doesn't it seem incredibly convenient that you will receive "blessings" when you give to god?

The vague nature of a "blessing" is where the charlatan hides.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-10-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(05-10-2014 08:00 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  If you want to get right to the heart of the issue with theists ask them how one can reliably distinguish between what they are calling "God" and something they may be simply imagining.

Yep.

None of the answers I've ever received ever actually address the question.


Check out Tracie Harris' 'Fallacy Model'.




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07-10-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(07-10-2014 02:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... so I'd love to hear about people who are atheists after having first having been tithing Christians. Could be interesting.

The personal experiences of such people are literally all over the internet.

Protip: the man who owns this website wrote a whole book about it.

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