A question that every theist should be asked
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07-10-2014, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 10:32 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(07-10-2014 10:05 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 09:54 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Congratulations cuntcake that in no way answers either question. You are getting to obvious and repetitive diddo, soon no one will wanna play your game and where will you get your attention from then? Neighborhood priest perhaps?Drinking Beverage

I have to tell you WhiskeyDebates that I am a person who very rarely uses curse words but your creative use of them makes me laugh out loud. Thanks for causing me to spray diet pepsi through my nose and onto the keyboard.

You sir, are very welcome! Big Grin

I treat curse words like a loaded gun, I only aim them at people who I think need to get shot. Let's say that's a metaphorical gunshot. Probably. >.> <.<

If you were to look at my post history almost everyone I consistently swear at now (MozartLink, diddo, HJ and so on) earned it through repeated dishonesty. My first exchanges with everyone of them were respectful if they had not demonstrated a willingness to be evasive or dishonest. But a spade is a spade and an asshole is a asshole.

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08-10-2014, 05:31 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2014 05:36 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(07-10-2014 09:52 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 09:31 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  How can we reliably distinguish between What a theist calls "God" and something he may merely be imagining? If something is indistinguishable from something that is imaginary, isn't it imaginary?

Because God is an ultimate being, which must exist.

The concept of an "ultimate" being or a "perfect" being is an entirely imaginary concept. Show me an example of anything that is "perfect" in the real world, no such thing exists except in the imagination.

You can't even define perfection with any more clarity than god can be defined. The similarities between descriptions of god and concepts that exist only in our imagination is striking, god is described and defined by imaginary and contradictory concepts.
Does this not reveal something about the god concept?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-10-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 05:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 09:52 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Because God is an ultimate being, which must exist.

The concept of an "ultimate" being or a "perfect" being is an entirely imaginary concept. Show me an example of anything that is "perfect" in the real world, no such thing exists except in the imagination.

You can't even define perfection with any more clarity than god can be defined. The similarities between descriptions of god and concepts that exist only in our imagination is striking, god is described and defined by imaginary and contradictory concepts.
Does this not reveal something about the god concept?

Why would I want to imagine a God that wants me to go to hell?

Truth seeker.
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08-10-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
Not that I disagree or anything but...

When people argue the are usually trying to find a way for both of them to be right ("agree to disagree" ). When you call them out on their god being imaginary you give them no room for compromise. You immediately put them on the defensive, and if they choose to proceed in the argument they are faced with the prospect of either total victory or defeat. If that is what you are going for great, its really effective. Won't be winning you any friends though.
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08-10-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 09:12 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 05:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The concept of an "ultimate" being or a "perfect" being is an entirely imaginary concept. Show me an example of anything that is "perfect" in the real world, no such thing exists except in the imagination.

You can't even define perfection with any more clarity than god can be defined. The similarities between descriptions of god and concepts that exist only in our imagination is striking, god is described and defined by imaginary and contradictory concepts.
Does this not reveal something about the god concept?

Why would I want to imagine a God that wants me to go to hell?

It may be a symptom of obsessive-compulsive disorder, or possibly schizophrenia.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(07-10-2014 03:23 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 02:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm sorry you've gotten unclear answers or anger in the past. I would say I had some notions about God but then read the Bible and explored. The Bible was not a product of my imagination but either products of others' imaginations, 100% true cover-to-cover, or somewhere in between. The Bible offers tests so one can verify.

Since I began I'd say I've had many answers/responses from God that I know come from God because they fit the Bible. The Bible has some "do this, then that will happen" tests that one may employ.

For example, I haven't imagined giving away money (tithing/offering) to have my living and financial needs met--rather than spending my money to have my mere living needs met. One is natural, one is unnatural or if you like, supernatural.

I'd heard growing up (many millennia ago now as you'd reckon it in your Earth years) that The Q use the hypothesis method of assuming something might or could be true, then testing it, then confirming or moving on. God offers tests for seekers. Again, I find that the giving away of dollars leads to return dollars so I put my "money where my mouth is".

Have you done the same? Tested the Lord per the Bible's standards? Please, not the (as I hear it often from atheists) "There is no God because He didn't answer my prayer for a family member to get well when I was five years old" unless you can also add the Bible standards of fervent prayer, praying per God's will, praying while having faith, etc. I know these three are beyond the reach of most of those on this forum at present (!) - I say that respectfully, you don't want to do those three things - so I'd love to hear about people who are atheists after having first having been tithing Christians. Could be interesting.

I tithed 20% for a period of time, I noticed nothing really coming into my pocket as a result. I then pulled out of church and stopped tithing, I noticed nothing except more money in my wallet. You are indulging in confirmation bias.

I tested your proposition, your god failed miserably. Or to put it better, the power that you think confirms your god is only in one's imagination or perception.

How long a "time"?

Is it confirmation bias if a similar event has occurred in my life dozens of times? With prayer, we're talking about thousands of iterations. If a scientist tests an assumption thousands of times and gets similar results, does he have a confirmatory bias?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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08-10-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 01:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 03:23 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I tithed 20% for a period of time, I noticed nothing really coming into my pocket as a result. I then pulled out of church and stopped tithing, I noticed nothing except more money in my wallet. You are indulging in confirmation bias.

I tested your proposition, your god failed miserably. Or to put it better, the power that you think confirms your god is only in one's imagination or perception.

How long a "time"?

Is it confirmation bias if a similar event has occurred in my life dozens of times? With prayer, we're talking about thousands of iterations. If a scientist tests an assumption thousands of times and gets similar results, does he have a confirmatory bias?

Yet another ignorant argument. Look up 'confirmation bias'. And possibly 'scientific method'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2014, 02:41 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 09:12 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Why would I want to imagine a God that wants me to go to hell?

This comment shows what's at the center of this theists argument.

He's basing his entire belief system on what he would want to image is true.

He wouldn't want to imagine a god that wants him to go to hell. Therefore he concludes there isn't a god that wants him to go to hell.

The failure to think critically is huge. In fact its willful ignorance of critical thought.
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08-10-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 01:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(07-10-2014 03:23 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I tithed 20% for a period of time, I noticed nothing really coming into my pocket as a result. I then pulled out of church and stopped tithing, I noticed nothing except more money in my wallet. You are indulging in confirmation bias.

I tested your proposition, your god failed miserably. Or to put it better, the power that you think confirms your god is only in one's imagination or perception.

How long a "time"?

Is it confirmation bias if a similar event has occurred in my life dozens of times? With prayer, we're talking about thousands of iterations. If a scientist tests an assumption thousands of times and gets similar results, does he have a confirmatory bias?

You have a poor understanding of scientific method. Since you have a line to god and he answers all of your prayers, lets do a double blind study with controls showing the scientific validity of your assertion.

Hmm, seems they already did that: Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer

Anecdotes are not evidence.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-10-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: A question that every theist should be asked
(08-10-2014 09:12 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 05:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The concept of an "ultimate" being or a "perfect" being is an entirely imaginary concept. Show me an example of anything that is "perfect" in the real world, no such thing exists except in the imagination.

You can't even define perfection with any more clarity than god can be defined. The similarities between descriptions of god and concepts that exist only in our imagination is striking, god is described and defined by imaginary and contradictory concepts.
Does this not reveal something about the god concept?

Why would I want to imagine a God that wants me to go to hell?

Why would someone want to believe in the boogie-man under their bed?

When you realize it is a child's fairytale, you don't need to anymore.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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