A quote and a ponder
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28-06-2011, 10:24 AM
A quote and a ponder
"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"

-Mark Twain



Why don't Christians pray for Satan? Lucifer was never even given a chance. God created him as one of his angels. That angel was capable of sin (?) and instead of the whole "I am here to forgive and help sinners" attitude, the Lord cast him out like a rich snob at a country club.

Christians are supposed to love everyone, and pray for those who need it. So why not pray for the supposed source of all evil? If God is all-powerful, then he's still capable of putting a stop to all this. He could close down hell, grab up Satan, and give him another chance. And it's not like, "Well God has already made his choice and I don't want to question his decision." Why? The God of the Bible changes his mind all the time.

This Heaven and Hell story is really stupid and full of holes.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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28-06-2011, 02:13 PM
RE: A quote and a ponder
Why would you pray for him, why couldn't you pray for god to *poof* hell and Satan out of existence, and look, nice happy ever after.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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28-06-2011, 08:21 PM
RE: A quote and a ponder
Because I don't want fallen angels/people to be poofed out of existence, when they can be helped back to their feet. Satan was supported by God when killing Job's family, so he was lead down the wrong path from the start. Then he shows a little testicular fortitude and steps up to God and gets cast out for eternity. I just feel sorry for him. Who knows, maybe Satan can hear prayers too (this is malleable fairy tale after all). So tonight I will pray to Satan that I understand him and that if he'll grant me superpowers, I'll die with a 12 pack in my lap so we can tip back some beers when I get to hell.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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28-06-2011, 09:04 PM
 
RE: A quote and a ponder
Actually I remember my greatgrandmother took the stance 'Dont hate Satan. You should pity him.' She never said to pray for him though, but its a heck of a lot closer than anyone else I have heard.
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29-06-2011, 08:28 AM
RE: A quote and a ponder
My mother understood the character of Satan pretty well. She was a baptist, but had trouble really agreeing with everything. She saw Satan as the yearning desire for a real understanding and truth. She didn't follow Satan, but she's never discussed the devil or any of that stuff.

She also happens to avoid literature questioning christianity as she's convinced she'll agree with it. Her first real find in this form was Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth". she only read a little before she took it back to the library, but she considers it to be a very powerful and truthful book despite her grasp for religion.

Not everyone in the faith is really against the antagonist. That's just what preachers prefer to say.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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29-06-2011, 10:47 AM
RE: A quote and a ponder
Your mother seems... interesting.
She seems like a smart person, yet she refuses to investigate her feelings of skepticism because she is afraid that she will see it as right?

I guess I can understand that mentality though, living forever in paradise seems a quite bit nicer then, THE END... Honestly, I still have problems accepting that death is THE END to this very day... it's honestly the only thing that could ever turn me back to religion in a moment of weakness.

heh.. I'll be a deathbed Christian.

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11-07-2011, 07:06 AM
RE: A quote and a ponder
I've never been able to figure out how Christians can reconcile the whole Satan story with a loving, all-powerful, all-seeing God. In order for Satan to exist at all, to have been cast out of heaven for pissing God off, describes God as unable to see the future, which also means he has no divine plan for us all. That he did not simply make Satan disappear (or did not create him in the first place) also means he is directly responsible for every evil atrocity ever contributed to Satan, since he could have prevented it. Ditto for the sins of man re: Adam and Eve. So who the fuck are these Christians worshipping? A blind, limited God or a malevolent one? Because they cannot have Satan and an all-powerful, all-knowing God at the same time. One precludes the other.

The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason. - Ben Franklin
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11-07-2011, 11:22 AM
RE: A quote and a ponder
I disagree with your conclusions. I think god casting satan out, as well as satan himself would fall into the divine plan idea to begin with. This however does not detract from your idea of god being responsible in the slightest, if anything it only makes him more responsible.
I would tend to see the divine plan as a super complex way of getting attention. Giving us free will would make it more impressive if we were to choose god for ourselves, and I assume more power for a being that thrives on genuine worship. But how do we choose if god is the only choice? Well first we create opposition. Enter Lucifer. So now that we have that out of the way let's get to the worshipping.
Gods divine plan I think has all to do with his benefit and nothing to do with ours.
Of course that would be if there were indeed a god. Which there probably isn't, and if there is, god probably isn't how he's been pictured.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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11-07-2011, 11:42 AM
RE: A quote and a ponder
I think Satan = Hades
Since Hades is the God of the Underworld then Satan is too. Therefore Satan was a construct in Christian belief to make it more relevant to other religions at the time.

That and people need a villain. Even God would know he needs someone to blame for the evil things. Satan is just doing the dirty work God does not want to do...and God does some pretty evil things (slaughtering babies, genocide, etc, etc) so the stuff the Devil does must be REALLY BAD! Like tempt men with seductresses and porn.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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11-07-2011, 01:10 PM
RE: A quote and a ponder
Yep porn is just so much worse than shoving a spear through a pregnant woman's belly. Oh right it's cause the porn effects Jews and the woman who was impaled isn't a Jew. There's only one god's chosen people the rest don't matter.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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