A rant to STEM students
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13-03-2014, 12:05 PM
A rant to STEM students
This really is inspired by some creatards in the college of architecture and civil engineering. It's an open letter to them.

Fellow students;

Recently it has come to my attention that some of you are adamant supporters of teaching ID and discrediting evolution. You claim that engineering has nothing to do with a disbelief in YEC and hope to spread your views to others.

While you have every right to hold whatever religious belief you want I am appalled at this denegration of science. We are not lawyers, who must be concerned only with written laws of men. We are not business majors, who concern only with sales and marketing. We are engineers. We are more educated in science than most. We rely on this knowledge to build and maintain the world around us. There is no excuse for us, who design and build power plants, to doubt the validity of isometric dating. There is no excuse for those who design rockets to believe in a stationary geocentric universe. There is no excuse for those who must protect and maintain the environment to deny natural selection.

We must concern ourselves with what is. Our tool is our scientific education and our work takes place in the world around is. To claim your tools are weak and feeble and your canvas is illusory is to fatally undermine our work. There is no excuse for you to doubt the validity of science. And knowing the small number of engineers in our school it is even less forgivable that you actively petition to teach this garbage to high school and middle school children.
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13-03-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 12:05 PM)natachan Wrote:  This really is inspired by some creatards in the college of architecture and civil engineering. It's an open letter to them.

Fellow students;

Recently it has come to my attention that some of you are adamant supporters of teaching ID and discrediting evolution. You claim that engineering has nothing to do with a disbelief in YEC and hope to spread your views to others.

While you have every right to hold whatever religious belief you want I am appalled at this denegration of science. We are not lawyers, who must be concerned only with written laws of men. We are not business majors, who concern only with sales and marketing. We are engineers. We are more educated in science than most. We rely on this knowledge to build and maintain the world around us. There is no excuse for us, who design and build power plants, to doubt the validity of isometric dating. There is no excuse for those who design rockets to believe in a stationary geocentric universe. There is no excuse for those who must protect and maintain the environment to deny natural selection.

We must concern ourselves with what is. Our tool is our scientific education and our work takes place in the world around is. To claim your tools are weak and feeble and your canvas is illusory is to fatally undermine our work. There is no excuse for you to doubt the validity of science. And knowing the small number of engineers in our school it is even less forgivable that you actively petition to teach this garbage to high school and middle school children.

I believe you meant radiometric dating?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-03-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
I are not a chemical engineer. My aunt is.

But yes.
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13-03-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 12:05 PM)natachan Wrote:  We must concern ourselves with what is. Our tool is our scientific education and our work takes place in the world around is. To claim your tools are weak and feeble and your canvas is illusory is to fatally undermine our work. There is no excuse for you to doubt the validity of science. And knowing the small number of engineers in our school it is even less forgivable that you actively petition to teach this garbage to high school and middle school children.

You mean it? Tongue

But yes I agree, I actually never thought I'd hear of a theist engineer... oooh, what about a theist bomb technician?? That would be hilarious! Laugh out load

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13-03-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:28 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 12:05 PM)natachan Wrote:  We must concern ourselves with what is. Our tool is our scientific education and our work takes place in the world around is. To claim your tools are weak and feeble and your canvas is illusory is to fatally undermine our work. There is no excuse for you to doubt the validity of science. And knowing the small number of engineers in our school it is even less forgivable that you actively petition to teach this garbage to high school and middle school children.

You mean it? Tongue

But yes I agree, I actually never thought I'd hear of a theist engineer... oooh, what about a theist bomb technician?? That would be hilarious! Laugh out load

Unfortunately there are MANY theist engineers, at least in the US. I work with a lot of them. I was one myself for a number of years.

I posted this in another thread some time ago, but I think it's because engineers don't have to deeply study the science and theory behind the laws and formulas if they don't want to, they just have to be able to understand and apply them. So it's easy to say, I understand how gravity and physics work and I believe god set it all up that way when he designed the universe. In fact, engineers are basically designers, so it kind of makes sense that it's easy for them to believe in an ultimate designer, if you will.

I agree with the OP, however, that we should look at the science behind the formulas and take a more rational look at the universe. It is frustrating to see people trained to be rational in their thought processes for school and work not apply that to their beliefs about the universe around them.
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13-03-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:28 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 12:05 PM)natachan Wrote:  We must concern ourselves with what is. Our tool is our scientific education and our work takes place in the world around is. To claim your tools are weak and feeble and your canvas is illusory is to fatally undermine our work. There is no excuse for you to doubt the validity of science. And knowing the small number of engineers in our school it is even less forgivable that you actively petition to teach this garbage to high school and middle school children.

You mean it? Tongue

But yes I agree, I actually never thought I'd hear of a theist engineer... oooh, what about a theist bomb technician?? That would be hilarious! Laugh out load

Is it wrong that I pictured a guy being conflicted over whether he should defuse the bomb he strapped to his own chest?

I work with a theist engineer. Dude designs jet engines for a living and understands the underlying aeronautic physics like it comes naturally. Yet he believes that the world around us couldn't have come to be without God... Dodgy

Think about that the next time you're flying. The guy who designed the turbines that propel your craft may not believe in all the laws of physics...

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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13-03-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
I resent that line about lawyers Dodgy

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13-03-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:44 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 01:28 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  You mean it? Tongue

But yes I agree, I actually never thought I'd hear of a theist engineer... oooh, what about a theist bomb technician?? That would be hilarious! Laugh out load

Is it wrong that I pictured a guy being conflicted over whether he should defuse the bomb he strapped to his own chest?

I work with a theist engineer. Dude designs jet engines for a living and understands the underlying aeronautic physics like it comes naturally. Yet he believes that the world around us couldn't have come to be without God... Dodgy

Think about that the next time you're flying. The guy who designed the turbines that propel your craft may not believe in all the laws of physics...

That fucking scares me... seriously

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13-03-2014, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2014 01:56 PM by cjlr.)
RE: A rant to STEM students
Meh. I know plenty of theistic theoretical physicists.

And there are two prominent observations - first, that said belief is very skewed towards a hands-off cosmological kind of thing (if they're not actual deists or spinozans at some level), and second, that the remaining problems are nothing cognitive dissonance can't cover up (non-overlapping magisteria, as it were).

So while there's the "why don't you apply the same standards of empirical naturalism to your personal beliefs" question, there's also the part where it doesn't affect anything other than personal beliefs.

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13-03-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:48 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I resent that line about lawyers Dodgy

Both my parents are lawyers. I poke them over being namby-pamby liberal arts majors. Tongue
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