A rant to STEM students
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13-03-2014, 01:55 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 01:48 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I resent that line about lawyers Dodgy

Both my parents are lawyers. I poke them over being namby-pamby liberal arts majors. Tongue

take that back! Beat_stick

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13-03-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:55 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 01:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  Both my parents are lawyers. I poke them over being namby-pamby liberal arts majors. Tongue

take that back! Beat_stick

Popcorn

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13-03-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Meh. I know plenty of theistic theoretical physicists.

And there are two prominent observations - first, that said belief is very skewed towards a hands-off cosmological kind of thing (if they're not actual deists or spinozans at some level), and second, that the remaining problems are nothing cognitive dissonance can't cover up (non-overlapping magisteria, as it were).

So while there's the "why don't you apply the same stands of empirical naturalism to your personal beliefs" question, there's also the part where it doesn't affect anything other than personal beliefs.

The human mind's capacity for cognitive dissonance is amazing. I know a number of engineers, up through the PhD level, who are brilliant in their fields of expertise, but who are thoroughly committed to their religious beliefs (I know devout christians, muslims, and hindus). Some are almost to the level of superstitious about religious issues, but are amazingly intelligent, logical and rational on engineering issues.
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13-03-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:55 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 01:54 PM)natachan Wrote:  Both my parents are lawyers. I poke them over being namby-pamby liberal arts majors. Tongue

take that back! Beat_stick

My brother is a music major. Imagine how much I rib HIM.
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13-03-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:59 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 01:55 PM)nach_in Wrote:  take that back! Beat_stick

My brother is a music major. Imagine how much I rib HIM.

well... he does study "music" Facepalm

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13-03-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:59 PM)meremortal Wrote:  The human mind's capacity for cognitive dissonance is amazing. I know a number of engineers, up through the PhD level, who are brilliant in their fields of expertise, but who are thoroughly committed to their religious beliefs (I know devout christians, muslims, and hindus). Some are almost to the level of superstitious about religious issues, but are amazingly intelligent, logical and rational on engineering issues.

Yep.

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14-03-2014, 01:59 AM
RE: A rant to STEM students
.... exactly what qualifications does the typical engineering student have to make their opinion on DNA evidence, fossil evidence, or other evidences of evolution an informed opinion? Isn't that a bit like a practicing psychiatrist trying to do forensic bone analysis? The fields have virtually nothing to do with each other!

Apparently every time this comes up before the Texas Board of Education, there's a parade of scientists talking about the holes in evolutionary theory. Most of them are engineers. The other common field? Dentists. Has anyone asked why BIOLOGISTS don't figure prominently in those numbers?
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14-03-2014, 07:36 AM
RE: A rant to STEM students
You can do an awful lot of engineering and even an awful lot of science without needing to think critically about issues such as evolution and cosmology... and even if you do accept the science in these areas it is easy to compartmentalise as cjlr points out.

The trigger for someone to think critically about their religious belief is not necessarily in easy reach of these other disciplines. There has to be some reason to reach for that trigger, and likely it is a social reason. My critical thinking about my beliefs only really kicked in in response to religious-based inaction on climate change and coming to associated myself less with the religious people around me and more with the irreligious people I knew or followed online.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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14-03-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: A rant to STEM students
There are two issues for me. One is the general undemining of science by these people who should know better. The second is the cognitive dissonance, and this is more baffling to me. If my uncle, who builds jets, told me he did t believe the earth was rotating I would be concerned.
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14-03-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: A rant to STEM students
(13-03-2014 01:42 PM)meremortal Wrote:  Unfortunately there are MANY theist engineers, at least in the US. I work with a lot of them. I was one myself for a number of years.

I posted this in another thread some time ago, but I think it's because engineers don't have to deeply study the science and theory behind the laws and formulas if they don't want to, they just have to be able to understand and apply them. So it's easy to say, I understand how gravity and physics work and I believe god set it all up that way when he designed the universe. In fact, engineers are basically designers, so it kind of makes sense that it's easy for them to believe in an ultimate designer, if you will.

I've heard the same thing, but to specifically note the high rate of creationist engineers. I'd always wondered if it was linked to them study how to design and build things, and just assuming everything was designed and built. Basically, the essence of the watchmaker argument.
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