A reason why people remain religious
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17-08-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 10:45 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Why are you condemning other people if you don't give a shit about how they live their lives and each person has a right to form their own path ??? Why are you preaching something which for others may be counterproductive ?
Because I feel that people would be better off with the delusional belief in a God and afterlife. Now here's a main reason why I feel people are better off with the delusional belief of there being a God and an afterlife (including me) because there is the ultimate mockery of all of you as a human being which is that, in the future, they might find a way to become immortal and eliminate many types of suffering (diseases and such). Everyone in the future might live a nice life of immortality while you and everyone else are "unfortunate" in that you will not only live lives of suffering and possible disease, but will die and remain dead in the end after all that suffering and no special reward for that suffering in the end. All of it was for nothing in the end. One might have the attitude of "At least I did my best in life" or that "At least I've helped others suffering," but even that will be all for nothing in the end because when you are dead, the fact that you made the best of your life would no longer matter and also that anyone you've inspired or helped in life--they will just die in the end as well. No, it doesn't matter how much of a person you are and what your desires are in life, this pathetic universe considers you "unfortunate" and, for that very reason, you are going to suffer and die and remain dead. Therefore, this is one of the main reason why I consider this life a pathetic joke and an utter mockery to us as human beings. This is why I wish I instead wasn't an atheist and believed there was a God and an afterlife of immortality and eternal joy and feel that people are better off with this delusional belief. The only thing they are not better off with would just be the morals of religion--those are something I am against.
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17-08-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(16-08-2014 06:31 PM)Miss Suzanne Wrote:  
(16-08-2014 04:40 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Life is about finding your own path, empowerment, and strength in life and not giving a fuck about what others think of you and any "selfish" beliefs you might have (and, of course, helping others only if you wish and not caring about what others think if you instead choose not to help others and instead focus on yourself). This is all your own brain and your own life and you make whatever you want to make of it--not what others think (including you) who have a negative opinion of my "selfish" views.

Well, darlin', according to you, we are correct in our atheism and you have no right to try to change us. After all, if life is finding our own path, who are you to say what our right path is? Every person is different. Maybe what all our brain thinks about is right for us. You can't know every person to know whether what we do in our life is right or wrong for us. Also, according to you, we're entitled to not give a fuck about what you say about our lives. Because life is about finding our own path and not giving a fuck about what people like you have to say about it. This is our life, our "selfish" brain, our moral. Not yours. We decided there is no god, just as your "selfish" mind has decided there should be a god for you to cling to. And yes, that means you shouldn't give a fuck if we care whether or not you believe in a god.

In short, we live our lives as we see fit. We don't give a fuck about what you say and we sure as hell won't change no matter how "selfish" or whatever you think we are.

And, by the by, who isn't selfish to a fault? No one can live a life for another person. Of course everyone acts for themselves whether it's helping people to make yourself happy, sitting on your ass and playing video games because you enjoy gaming, passing that car on the highway because you want to drive five miles an hour over the speed limit, or any of the things we do in life.

Really great post!

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17-08-2014, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2014 03:16 PM by Baruch.)
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 01:10 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 10:45 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Why are you condemning other people if you don't give a shit about how they live their lives and each person has a right to form their own path ??? Why are you preaching something which for others may be counterproductive ?
Because I feel that people would be better off with the delusional belief in a God and afterlife. Now here's a main reason why I feel people are better off with the delusional belief of there being a God and an afterlife (including me) because there is the ultimate mockery of all of you as a human being which is that, in the future, they might find a way to become immortal and eliminate many types of suffering (diseases and such). Everyone in the future might live a nice life of immortality while you and everyone else are "unfortunate" in that you will not only live lives of suffering and possible disease, but will die and remain dead in the end after all that suffering and no special reward for that suffering in the end. All of it was for nothing in the end. One might have the attitude of "At least I did my best in life" or that "At least I've helped others suffering," but even that will be all for nothing in the end because when you are dead, the fact that you made the best of your life would no longer matter and also that anyone you've inspired or helped in life--they will just die in the end as well. No, it doesn't matter how much of a person you are and what your desires are in life, this pathetic universe considers you "unfortunate" and, for that very reason, you are going to suffer and die and remain dead. Therefore, this is one of the main reason why I consider this life a pathetic joke and an utter mockery to us as human beings. This is why I wish I instead wasn't an atheist and believed there was a God and an afterlife of immortality and eternal joy and feel that people are better off with this delusional belief. The only thing they are not better off with would just be the morals of religion--those are something I am against.

Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if one finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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17-08-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 02:20 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 01:10 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Because I feel that people would be better off with the delusional belief in a God and afterlife. Now here's a main reason why I feel people are better off with the delusional belief of there being a God and an afterlife (including me) because there is the ultimate mockery of all of you as a human being which is that, in the future, they might find a way to become immortal and eliminate many types of suffering (diseases and such). Everyone in the future might live a nice life of immortality while you and everyone else are "unfortunate" in that you will not only live lives of suffering and possible disease, but will die and remain dead in the end after all that suffering and no special reward for that suffering in the end. All of it was for nothing in the end. One might have the attitude of "At least I did my best in life" or that "At least I've helped others suffering," but even that will be all for nothing in the end because when you are dead, the fact that you made the best of your life would no longer matter and also that anyone you've inspired or helped in life--they will just die in the end as well. No, it doesn't matter how much of a person you are and what your desires are in life, this pathetic universe considers you "unfortunate" and, for that very reason, you are going to suffer and die and remain dead. Therefore, this is one of the main reason why I consider this life a pathetic joke and an utter mockery to us as human beings. This is why I wish I instead wasn't an atheist and believed there was a God and an afterlife of immortality and eternal joy and feel that people are better off with this delusional belief. The only thing they are not better off with would just be the morals of religion--those are something I am against.

Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if once finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.


Just downright beautifully written
*Bow*

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17-08-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 02:58 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 02:20 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if once finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.


Just downright beautifully written
*Bow*

Yes, dying one day gives me goosebumps of excitement right now, oh I feel so special living on a pale blue rock amongst the cold & barren almost zero kelvin wasteland peppered by nuclear reactors shining bright lights in my path with the occasional black hole sucking everything into oblivion. What a wonderful design to have 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% waste no one can see and just us on a pale blue dot. (and of course our fellow alien residents if they turn up and show themselves should they transverse the light years between interstellar space)

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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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17-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
I see Mozart Link is making lots of friends here as well! Laughat

He's been spamming another atheist forum where I'm a mod with exactly the same bullshit, word by word. He ended up in our "Purgatory" (aka "cannon fodder section").
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17-08-2014, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2014 04:24 PM by Mozart Link.)
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 02:20 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 01:10 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Because I feel that people would be better off with the delusional belief in a God and afterlife. Now here's a main reason why I feel people are better off with the delusional belief of there being a God and an afterlife (including me) because there is the ultimate mockery of all of you as a human being which is that, in the future, they might find a way to become immortal and eliminate many types of suffering (diseases and such). Everyone in the future might live a nice life of immortality while you and everyone else are "unfortunate" in that you will not only live lives of suffering and possible disease, but will die and remain dead in the end after all that suffering and no special reward for that suffering in the end. All of it was for nothing in the end. One might have the attitude of "At least I did my best in life" or that "At least I've helped others suffering," but even that will be all for nothing in the end because when you are dead, the fact that you made the best of your life would no longer matter and also that anyone you've inspired or helped in life--they will just die in the end as well. No, it doesn't matter how much of a person you are and what your desires are in life, this pathetic universe considers you "unfortunate" and, for that very reason, you are going to suffer and die and remain dead. Therefore, this is one of the main reason why I consider this life a pathetic joke and an utter mockery to us as human beings. This is why I wish I instead wasn't an atheist and believed there was a God and an afterlife of immortality and eternal joy and feel that people are better off with this delusional belief. The only thing they are not better off with would just be the morals of religion--those are something I am against.

Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if one finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.
First off, what about people who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever (such as those with chronic severe depression who are treatment resistant and can never get better because there are such people)? I think very few, if any in this situation, would agree with you and what practically everyone else thinks regarding atheism and these depressed people would instead highly agree with what I just said.

Second, I used to live a life of virtually no problems when I was younger. I went to school and then went home and played videogames all day. This is how my life was each day and I was perfectly fine with that and I would be perfectly fine with that now as an adult. I found great meaning in it and such. Therefore, I see no reason as to why I would not be fine and not find even greater meaning living forever. Since I'm just fine living a life without problems as well as living forever this way, there would be no reason that I would view an eternal life as something with less meaning as well as torture. It's not like my brain has some sort of limited capacity built into it in which I can only handle so much amount of living with no problems and such. It's the exact opposite of that.
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17-08-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 03:37 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 02:20 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if one finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.
First off, what about people who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever (such as those with chronic severe depression who are treatment resistant and can never get better because there are such people)? I think very few, if any in this situation, would agree with you and what practically everyone else thinks regarding atheism and these depressed people would instead highly agree with what I just said.

Second, I used to live a life of virtually no problems when I was younger. I went to school and then went home and played videogames all day. This is how my life was each day and I was perfectly fine with that and I would be perfectly fine with that now as an adult. I found great meaning in it and such. Therefore, I see no reason as to why I would not be fine and not find even greater meaning living forever. Since I'm just fine living a life without problems as well as living forever this way, there would be no reason that I would view an eternal life as something with less meaning as well as torture. It's not like my brain has some sort of limited capacity built into it in which I can only handle so much amount of living and living with no problems and such. It's the exact opposite of that.

I am glad you directly engaged with my comments - and you have some interesting points.
Firstly atheism has nothing to do with depression - its just lack of belief in a God.

For some people getting rid of God was the solution to waking up from depression, I know this from personal experience during my orthodoxy and 'spiritual journey' through comparative religions. I found the false religious beliefs to be temporary solutions, basically delusions which don't empower people but often leave them crippled with anxieties, worrying about afterlives, constantly under the watchful eye of the great dictator. It is far more meaningful to create meaning in a lived experience based on evidence than having it handed down as some sort of prepackaged obligation from an invisible deity which has no evidence.
There are depressed atheists, depressed theists and all sorts of combinations - so depression has little to do with it.


Secondly - about the depressed people "who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever" - what about them ?
Sure one can have HOPE of recovery.
How does pretending a God exist help them ??? God is the one who fucked up their brain in the first place, gave them the screwed up chemical neurological mix - perhaps God should have been more generous with the dopamine + Serotonin, didn't stop them make bad decisions (cos' of free will of course), didn't inspire the doctors to find a cure - basically God is the one factor in common screwing up these peoples life. SO what now, they pretend God loves them despite the fact He is screwing up their life ? God is the one who used an evolutionary process (if one is a theistic evolutionist) and used such a tragic method of utterly incompetent design to increase suffering, torture and torment to these people.
So now just to feel better your supposed to pretend that there is a devil responsible for the suffering and get God of the hook, turn God into a lover and feel some peace ? This is ridiculous because you know such a narrative is a lie and this makes the suffering even worse !!!!!!!!!!! Cognitive dissonance is not a cure but just perpetuates the suffering.


...as for your second point about living forever.
Yes as a kid you love computer games. Yes as an adult you still love computer games and find them meaningful. Perhaps 200 years of computer games is OK and meaningful. Who knows, 500 years and you might still play some re-runs of the games you forgot about, the ones you played 400 years ago.
1,000,000 years of computer games ? Ever heard of getting bored ? Our brains also get desensitized always looking for new stimulation and experiences - after thousands of years of computer games people will be demanding the most intense game of all, the best game made ever - a virtual game. In this best game ever - total immersion game if you lose a level you will DIE. It is a stunning game, only the people with balls and guts can play it and it is rated for over 500's year olds only. This is the most meaningful game in existence at the time and some people try to illegally obtain it under the age of 500.
Consider the scenario - I don't think it is far fetched at all but quite real - the point is that meaning comes when there is a concept of finality.

...and by the way - there are today some combat games which if you get shot and die online you lose everything invested for what could be weeks (time, money etc). There is no resurrection, replay, rewind, saved games, re-boot, bonus lives etc and this changes the gameplay making it very intense and serious - much more realistic due to genuine loss of investment. (Ok you dont actually die, for that you need a real battlefield or extreme sport for the adrenaline junkies out there)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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17-08-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 10:28 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 09:40 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Which is precisely why it can't be refuted. Kinda moot though, still gotta get up in the morning and go to work.

Do you really? Not according to solipsism you don't. Wink

I just recalled something: solipsism is not just unfalsifiable; it's actually self-defeating. If solipsism is true, nothing can be proven; not even solipsism itself.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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17-08-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: A reason why people remain religious
(17-08-2014 04:20 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 03:37 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  First off, what about people who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever (such as those with chronic severe depression who are treatment resistant and can never get better because there are such people)? I think very few, if any in this situation, would agree with you and what practically everyone else thinks regarding atheism and these depressed people would instead highly agree with what I just said.

Second, I used to live a life of virtually no problems when I was younger. I went to school and then went home and played videogames all day. This is how my life was each day and I was perfectly fine with that and I would be perfectly fine with that now as an adult. I found great meaning in it and such. Therefore, I see no reason as to why I would not be fine and not find even greater meaning living forever. Since I'm just fine living a life without problems as well as living forever this way, there would be no reason that I would view an eternal life as something with less meaning as well as torture. It's not like my brain has some sort of limited capacity built into it in which I can only handle so much amount of living and living with no problems and such. It's the exact opposite of that.

I am glad you directly engaged with my comments - and you have some interesting points.
Firstly atheism has nothing to do with depression - its just lack of belief in a God.

For some people getting rid of God was the solution to waking up from depression, I know this from personal experience during my orthodoxy and 'spiritual journey' through comparative religions. I found the false religious beliefs to be temporary solutions, basically delusions which don't empower people but often leave them crippled with anxieties, worrying about afterlives, constantly under the watchful eye of the great dictator. It is far more meaningful to create meaning in a lived experience based on evidence than having it handed down as some sort of prepackaged obligation from an invisible deity which has no evidence.
There are depressed atheists, depressed theists and all sorts of combinations - so depression has little to do with it.


Secondly - about the depressed people "who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever" - what about them ?
Sure one can have HOPE of recovery.
How does pretending a God exist help them ??? God is the one who fucked up their brain in the first place, gave them the screwed up chemical neurological mix - perhaps God should have been more generous with the dopamine + Serotonin, didn't stop them make bad decisions (cos' of free will of course), didn't inspire the doctors to find a cure - basically God is the one factor in common screwing up these peoples life. SO what now, they pretend God loves them despite the fact He is screwing up their life ? God is the one who used an evolutionary process (if one is a theistic evolutionist) and used such a tragic method of utterly incompetent design to increase suffering, torture and torment to these people.
So now just to feel better your supposed to pretend that there is a devil responsible for the suffering and get God of the hook, turn God into a lover and feel some peace ? This is ridiculous because you know such a narrative is a lie and this makes the suffering even worse !!!!!!!!!!! Cognitive dissonance is not a cure but just perpetuates the suffering.


...as for your second point about living forever.
Yes as a kid you love computer games. Yes as an adult you still love computer games and find them meaningful. Perhaps 200 years of computer games is OK and meaningful. Who knows, 500 years and you might still play some re-runs of the games you forgot about, the ones you played 400 years ago.
1,000,000 years of computer games ? Ever heard of getting bored ? Our brains also get desensitized always looking for new stimulation and experiences - after thousands of years of computer games people will be demanding the most intense game of all, the best game made ever - a virtual game. In this best game ever - total immersion game if you lose a level you will DIE. It is a stunning game, only the people with balls and guts can play it and it is rated for over 500's year olds only. This is the most meaningful game in existence at the time and some people try to illegally obtain it under the age of 500.
Consider the scenario - I don't think it is far fetched at all but quite real - the point is that meaning comes when there is a concept of finality.

...and by the way - there are today some combat games which if you get shot and die online you lose everything invested for what could be weeks (time, money etc). There is no resurrection, replay, rewind, saved games, re-boot, bonus lives etc and this changes the gameplay making it very intense and serious - much more realistic due to genuine loss of investment. (Ok you dont actually die, for that you need a real battlefield or extreme sport for the adrenaline junkies out there)
Now continuing on from my previous post about treatment resistant depressed people, I am one of these depressed people. Therefore, consider my arguments in support of those with severe depression and major problems in life and not just blissfully denying the existence of such people by saying things such as what you said about this one and only life being the greatest thing and such.

Our personal beliefs do play a role in us feeling depressed. For me, being an atheist has, in fact, caused me depression. If I knew that there was an afterlife of eternal joy and such to get out of this inferior life of suffering, I would feel empowered and much less depressed. There are people (including me) that, no matter how much they try and change their thinking and to view this one and only life as something great, they are just unable to. Which is why such people like this need a belief in heaven. But, again, the morals of religious belief would not benefit these people at all and is something I am against.

Finally, as for being desensitized and being bored to death of living a life of no problems and such, even if this did happen to me, it would be a much better life than this life of suffering and depression I'm having. Also, people with mental disorders do defy common conceptions about the brain. For example, it is in our human nature to socialize and such. But people who are sociopaths are the opposite of that. Therefore, who's to say that I don't have a mental disorder or that my already-existing mental disorder(s) do not contribute to me not having the ability of feeling how a normal person would feel living an eternal life of no problems (which would be them finding less meaning in it, being bored to death, and wanting to end that life)?
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