A respectful debate
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09-11-2013, 10:26 PM
RE: A respectful debate
(09-11-2013 09:32 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  It seems like you atheists debate everyone you meet!

Lol.

I don't think it has much to do with being an atheist, and more to do with always seeking the cold, hard facts. Always questioning. Wanting to find, discover, and explore---it just seems like quite a few atheists have that mindset. And some of the greatest minds who have made the greatest discoveries have had that mindset.

And now to be facetious..Wink
Thank god those scientists didn't accept the answer of 'god just wanted it that way!'
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09-11-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: A respectful debate
(09-11-2013 09:42 AM)Simon Moon Wrote:  ...
I have 3 close friends that are atheists. None of them are into debate.

This is debatable. Please defend your position.

MrKrispy,
I like your thinking. Keep us posted as the exchange continues, please. I'd be interested to know the theistic response (other than fingers-in-ears screaming la-la-la)

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09-11-2013, 10:51 PM
RE: A respectful debate
I don't shy from 'debate' as such but only if it's something I've put a lot of time in to and know I can explain my position well and produce facts. As it is though, I like to be educated and will engage in discussion with holders of different points of views. Just flitting about on this forum the last few days, I've come across a lot of new subjects that I am curious about.

I suppose I'm trying to say that debate is a tool to facilitate learning more than an ends in itself and learning is the goal!

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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10-11-2013, 02:15 AM
RE: A respectful debate
Belief isn't something Boolean. It comes in degrees. I'm pretty sure its likely that aliens exist somewhere else in the universe, but not so sure bigfoot exists anywhere in the pacific northwest. I believe in aliens much more than I believe in bigfoot. I wouldn't say I don't believe in bigfoot because although I think the probability of a bigfoot being found is near 0, my world view wouldn't be rocked if one was found. Now suppose someone proves the earth is really flat and all those photos from space other evidence was part of an elaborate cover-up....well that would rock my world view.....I would be absolutely shocked, stunned and amazed to find out that the earth is really flat. You could say I have some belief in bigfoots existence, but no belief in the world being flat.

Now all that being said, let me get to the point. Perhaps God will judge you as having believed in Him if you believed in Him as much as you were able. Perhaps if you have some belief in God, He will only send you to hell if you make an actionable rejection of that belief...such as by trying to convince believers there is no God when deep down you have some miniscule amount of belief in God.
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10-11-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: A respectful debate
(10-11-2013 02:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Belief isn't something Boolean. It comes in degrees. I'm pretty sure its likely that aliens exist somewhere else in the universe, but not so sure bigfoot exists anywhere in the pacific northwest. I believe in aliens much more than I believe in bigfoot. I wouldn't say I don't believe in bigfoot because although I think the probability of a bigfoot being found is near 0, my world view wouldn't be rocked if one was found. Now suppose someone proves the earth is really flat and all those photos from space other evidence was part of an elaborate cover-up....well that would rock my world view.....I would be absolutely shocked, stunned and amazed to find out that the earth is really flat. You could say I have some belief in bigfoots existence, but no belief in the world being flat.

Now all that being said, let me get to the point. Perhaps God will judge you as having believed in Him if you believed in Him as much as you were able. Perhaps if you have some belief in God, He will only send you to hell if you make an actionable rejection of that belief...such as by trying to convince believers there is no God when deep down you have some miniscule amount of belief in God.

Well, since you're going out on a limb of fantasy , I'll swing around with ya. Mostly in tribute to my hairier ancestors.

So the all loving sky god is gonna punish me because I tried to tell people it is a fairy tale. Orrrrr maybe, the Wiccans have it right, and there is no Hell, but because you are trying to convince everyone there is a hell, the witches will turn you into a frog.

Seems plausible to me.
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11-11-2013, 02:07 AM
RE: A respectful debate
(10-11-2013 11:57 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(10-11-2013 02:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Belief isn't something Boolean. It comes in degrees. I'm pretty sure its likely that aliens exist somewhere else in the universe, but not so sure bigfoot exists anywhere in the pacific northwest. I believe in aliens much more than I believe in bigfoot. I wouldn't say I don't believe in bigfoot because although I think the probability of a bigfoot being found is near 0, my world view wouldn't be rocked if one was found. Now suppose someone proves the earth is really flat and all those photos from space other evidence was part of an elaborate cover-up....well that would rock my world view.....I would be absolutely shocked, stunned and amazed to find out that the earth is really flat. You could say I have some belief in bigfoots existence, but no belief in the world being flat.

Now all that being said, let me get to the point. Perhaps God will judge you as having believed in Him if you believed in Him as much as you were able. Perhaps if you have some belief in God, He will only send you to hell if you make an actionable rejection of that belief...such as by trying to convince believers there is no God when deep down you have some miniscule amount of belief in God.
So the all loving sky god is gonna punish me because I tried to tell people it is a fairy tale. Orrrrr maybe, the Wiccans have it right, and there is no Hell, but because you are trying to convince everyone there is a hell, the witches will turn you into a frog.

Seems plausible to me.

The OP claimed belief was not really a choice...which I agree. I then pointed out that belief isn't Boolean, that it comes in degrees and if God is going to hold you accountable for believing in Him, then perhaps He will only hold you accountable for believing in Him as much as you are able.
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11-11-2013, 09:46 AM
RE: A respectful debate
(09-11-2013 09:10 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Belief is a compulsion beyond the realm of choice achieved through convincing arguments, evidence and trust.

I agree, especially with this part that I quoted. I never chose to stop believing in a god, it just happened because the more I learned about what religion was teaching, the more obvious the lack of evidence and the fallacies became. At first, I wasn't even happy that my faith involuntarily evaporated. I was afraid I would possibly be going to hell and it took quite awhile to get over that. At that time, had it been a real choice, I would have chosen to keep believing out of fear. But there was no choice.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-11-2013, 09:50 AM
RE: A respectful debate
(10-11-2013 02:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Belief isn't something Boolean. It comes in degrees. I'm pretty sure its likely that aliens exist somewhere else in the universe, but not so sure bigfoot exists anywhere in the pacific northwest. I believe in aliens much more than I believe in bigfoot. I wouldn't say I don't believe in bigfoot because although I think the probability of a bigfoot being found is near 0, my world view wouldn't be rocked if one was found. Now suppose someone proves the earth is really flat and all those photos from space other evidence was part of an elaborate cover-up....well that would rock my world view.....I would be absolutely shocked, stunned and amazed to find out that the earth is really flat. You could say I have some belief in bigfoots existence, but no belief in the world being flat.

Now all that being said, let me get to the point. Perhaps God will judge you as having believed in Him if you believed in Him as much as you were able. Perhaps if you have some belief in God, He will only send you to hell if you make an actionable rejection of that belief...such as by trying to convince believers there is no God when deep down you have some miniscule amount of belief in God.
This sounds like typical manipulation of dogma to fit ones own personal paradigm rather than simply facing reality. Dodgy

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-11-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: A respectful debate
(09-11-2013 09:32 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  It seems like you atheists debate everyone you meet!

Lol.

Naw, just everyone I meet here. Tongue

As far as Facebook is concerned, I tend to adopt a no religion or politics stance on my own posts, and tend to comment on other religious or political posts sparingly. This is, in part, because people tend not to change their minds on Internet debates, and also because FB is such a terrible medium for debates. Forums are so much nicer. Big Grin
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