A sentient god? I don't think so.
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24-11-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: A sentient god? I don't think so.
(24-11-2012 05:56 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 04:33 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then I guess we are both stuck. Consider
I've read the whole thing a second time and I'm simply confused at this point. Are you guys saying that because I can't 100% know that there are sentient life forms without a nervous system, I can't use it as a premise in an argument? That would mean that you can't use anything as a premise, because you don't know anything with 100% certainty.


No no,

Not because you can't know it with 100% certainty. You can't use it because it is challengeable by a theist, that is it's a premise that they A. won't like, and B. can challenge using the "You can't know that for certain" argument.

Think about it. If WLC bases an argument on the Bible, do you give it any consideration? Of course not! Because you reject the premise that the Bible is accurate and correct. The apologists will have the same reaction to scientific findings as you have to the Bible, at least when those findings have the potential contradict the Bible.

If you base an argument against the biblical god on scientific evidence, it will certainly be ignored by everyone except those who are already irreligious. It's essentially the same type of wanking as apologists get out of Bible-based arguments. If you want an effective argument, you must face them on their own ground, and contradict the Bible using itself, or by using such basic and obvious natural truths that they cannot ignore them (things fall down, sun rises in the east, etc.)

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-11-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: A sentient god? I don't think so.
Vosur, I think there is an actual logical fallacy in your argument. I'm having difficulty expressing it though.

You are arguing that God is not sentient based on a definition of sentience and a requirement for sentience that you're taking as 'obviously true'. i.e. that in order to 'feel and experience stuff' you must possess a 'complex neural system'.

I don't dispute that in all of human experience this is the case, but in talking about God, especially to a theist, you're talking about something which is officially beyond human experience (invisible etc Dodgy ). To *use* human experience to define qualities / requirements for this unseen being seems akin to me to be saying something like 'because our universe has a gravitational constant X therefore all universes must have that constant X' - we're talking about something which we have no data for. This is why I think the brain requirement is not a valid generalization.
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24-11-2012, 03:54 PM
RE: A sentient god? I don't think so.
(24-11-2012 05:56 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-11-2012 04:33 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then I guess we are both stuck. Consider
I've read the whole thing a second time and I'm simply confused at this point. Are you guys saying that because I can't 100% know that there are sentient life forms without a nervous system, I can't use it as a premise in an argument? That would mean that you can't use anything as a premise, because you don't know anything with 100% certainty.
Yeah, well, there's a hundred percent certainty that arguing with a theist is just upsetting the pig. Undecided

"Sentience" is not well defined. Plants turn to face the sun, engage in chemical warfare, do all kinds of shit...

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24-11-2012, 04:43 PM
AW: A sentient god? I don't think so.
Alright, thanks for the input, everyone. 'Suppose it wasn't all that good after all.

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