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A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
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20-02-2014, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2014 04:48 PM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(20-02-2014 02:26 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
Quote:-allow deported/refugees to return to their original homes

--if homes are occupied or destroyed, state pays for new ones

-no one is allowed to be evicted or run off from their homes

If I understood you correctly, you are contradicting yourself.

I don't think you understood correctly.

Deported and refugees need to be allowed to return. Their residence are either returned or rebuilt, expenses paid for by the government. If you continued reading I also said that then once everyone is in place, and given equal voting rights, they then must hold a referendum to determine future borders.

The future administrative styles based within the new borders cannot be based on "race" or religion. Future administrative borders will allow all occupants to vote equally in those new future borders/countries.

You can vote for people or parties based on "race" or religion, but the government is open to everyone - all religions and "race" have equal status. Only secular and progressive government style will be seen as legitimate.

No one is going to be kicked out of forcibly removed. Damage is done, no more new victims. And with this plan, there won't be any real victims. This is the most rational, and most realistic course of action.
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20-02-2014, 09:59 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2014 10:05 PM by Youkay.)
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
These are awefully general and vague statements born out of ignorance and simplistic thinking.

PoolBoyG Wrote:Deported and refugees need to be allowed to return. Their residence are either returned or rebuilt, expenses paid for by the government.

Have a look at the maps. You will find that you are suggesting 80-90% of Israel to be returned to Palestinians.

PoolBoyG Wrote:If you continued reading I also said that then once everyone is in place, and given equal voting rights, they then must hold a referendum to determine future borders.

I did. I dismissed the rest of your post for being utterly naive, ideological and unrealistic. And I will do so again. Maybe you should read my posts properly, because I mentioned this before. Also, I sugget you do some deeper reading before you attempt to discuss this topic.

In your post, you continue to argue from a hypothetical position, which has absolutely no value. You are advertising a 1 nation transitional solution. What makes you so positive that your ideology can be applied to reality?

There is a reason, why the 1 state solution is considered to be a 1 state non-solution.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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20-02-2014, 10:15 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(20-02-2014 10:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 08:08 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Hahaha, that is absolutely fine. No hard feelings. Writing pier-reviewed instead of peer-reviewed is quite funny Big Grin This being Chas' only contribution is sad though...

I'm sorry that you find my not contributing to a tediously unresolvable debate sad.

I find it sad that no one will mention, let alone acknowledge, that the very existence of the State of Israel is the problem.

Apology accepted.

I suppose among rational people there is absolutely no debate over the founding and expansion of Israel being the prime initiator of this conflict. Suggesting that either Palestinians or Israelis should be removed from that area and re-settled elsewhere is utterly unrealistic and would only cause new problems, which is why nobody makes such a suggestion.

We need to deal with the current situation, in which plenty of people, mostly uneducated or willfully ignorant, are of the firm conviction that Palestinians have no right to establish a legitimate country. This is a humanitarian issue, which becomes more and more pressing as time passes.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 12:07 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(20-02-2014 10:15 PM)Youkay Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 10:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm sorry that you find my not contributing to a tediously unresolvable debate sad.

I find it sad that no one will mention, let alone acknowledge, that the very existence of the State of Israel is the problem.

Apology accepted.

How curious; I made no apology. Consider

Quote:I suppose among rational people there is absolutely no debate over the founding and expansion of Israel being the prime initiator of this conflict. Suggesting that either Palestinians or Israelis should be removed from that area and re-settled elsewhere is utterly unrealistic and would only cause new problems, which is why nobody makes such a suggestion.

I certainly made no such suggestion. I merely point out that the founding of the State of Israel was an unlawful act, and we should acknowledge that.

Quote:We need to deal with the current situation, in which plenty of people, mostly uneducated or willfully ignorant, are of the firm conviction that Palestinians have no right to establish a legitimate country. This is a humanitarian issue, which becomes more and more pressing as time passes.

When dealing with the current situation, priority should be those whose ox was gored. Hint: they aren't Israelis.

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21-02-2014, 01:49 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 12:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 10:15 PM)Youkay Wrote:  Apology accepted.

How curious; I made no apology. Consider

Quote:I suppose among rational people there is absolutely no debate over the founding and expansion of Israel being the prime initiator of this conflict. Suggesting that either Palestinians or Israelis should be removed from that area and re-settled elsewhere is utterly unrealistic and would only cause new problems, which is why nobody makes such a suggestion.

I certainly made no such suggestion. I merely point out that the founding of the State of Israel was an unlawful act, and we should acknowledge that.

Quote:We need to deal with the current situation, in which plenty of people, mostly uneducated or willfully ignorant, are of the firm conviction that Palestinians have no right to establish a legitimate country. This is a humanitarian issue, which becomes more and more pressing as time passes.

When dealing with the current situation, priority should be those whose ox was gored. Hint: they aren't Israelis.

You misunderstood me:
You said "I'm sorry", so I said "apology accepted" only jokingly.
Also, I didn't mean to indicate that what I wrote down was your suggestion. You obviously did no such thing.

I agree with you that because Palestinians have suffered unproportionally more than Israelis, their needs should be prioritized. However, the solution has to be a fair compromise that both parties should be able to agree on. Of course, it is unlikely that Israel would accept ANY compromise, given their success of their current politics and motivation to occupy as much land as possible.

There are many people on this forum who would greatly differ, and that is an awareness issue that needs to be addressed within in order to increase the pressure on Israel.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 01:52 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
I think best solution is for one side to annihilate another and take over. 2 sides that hate each other can never live together. If one of em gets obliterated it's easier for both cause one gets to live alone in peace while another doesn't exist anymore and therefore got nothing to complain about.
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21-02-2014, 03:12 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 01:52 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I think best solution is for one side to annihilate another and take over. 2 sides that hate each other can never live together. If one of em gets obliterated it's easier for both cause one gets to live alone in peace while another doesn't exist anymore and therefore got nothing to complain about.

Are you serious or are you just trolling?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 03:56 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 03:12 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 01:52 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I think best solution is for one side to annihilate another and take over. 2 sides that hate each other can never live together. If one of em gets obliterated it's easier for both cause one gets to live alone in peace while another doesn't exist anymore and therefore got nothing to complain about.

Are you serious or are you just trolling?

Okay, credit to him, in the most literal sense, if you just plain removed all of one side, the remainder would get to live in peace with itself...

It's not a good idea at all, but in the most strict, literal sense, he's right...

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21-02-2014, 03:58 AM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 03:56 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 03:12 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Are you serious or are you just trolling?

Okay, credit to him, in the most literal sense, if you just plain removed all of one side, the remainder would get to live in peace with itself...

It's not a good idea at all, but in the most strict, literal sense, he's right...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punic_Wars

There is some historical data that says it is a workable model. Far more than any other plan that has been proposed.

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21-02-2014, 05:05 AM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2014 05:16 AM by Youkay.)
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
I'm befuddled... are you guys seriously suggesting to let the conflict between Israel and Palistinians drag on until one side (which will be Palestinians) is completely annihilated? Shocking

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