Poll: I believe in a ...
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A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
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21-02-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:00 PM)Youkay Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 01:17 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  “Our weapons are the ironic mind against the literal: the open mind against the credulous; the courageous pursuit of truth against the fearful and abject forces who would set limits to investigation (and who stupidly claim that we already have all the truth we need). Perhaps above all, we affirm life over the cults of death and human sacrifice and are afraid, not of inevitable death, but rather of a human life that is cramped and distorted by the pathetic need to offer mindless adulation, or the dismal belief that the laws of nature respond to wailings and incantations.”


― Christopher Hitchens

That quote is about ridiculing religion and religious rituals. Not about sarcasm being a good thing in general. lol. Laughat

Hitchens himself was dead serious about this conflict.

The fact that you don't get it shows why I used that quote.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-02-2014, 09:12 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
As a matter of fact, this thread mirrors people's general attitude quite well. Indifference, helplessness and a lack of indignation. People supporting posts that are either unproductive or even counter-productive. People believing in a never-ending conflict rather than actively and positively wanting to oppose misery. People accusing me with being self-righteous born out of their lack of sympathy.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 09:14 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:09 PM)donotwant Wrote:  What do you suggest then? Divide land in 2 pieces? Both sides will never agree to it since they think it's theirs. It's like I would never give a part of my house to somebody else especially if I was building it for 100 years. It's impossible and not happening.
You will understand once somebody will try to take away something which you refuse to give up. War is unavoidable in this situation until one side will give it up or get annihilated. And nobody will ever give up a part of land forever. Especially after 100 years of struggle.

I have already demonstrated sufficiently that Palestinians are absolutely willing to accept a two-nations solution, which would be a tremendous improvement to their current situation.

What needs to be done is to force Israel to seek and accept a historically justified compromise.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 09:16 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 09:00 PM)Youkay Wrote:  That quote is about ridiculing religion and religious rituals. Not about sarcasm being a good thing in general. lol. Laughat

Hitchens himself was dead serious about this conflict.

The fact that you don't get it shows why I used that quote.

Why are you being so thickheaded? Stop embarrassing yourself.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2014 09:20 PM by donotwant.)
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
In which borders? 1967 is a definite no go.
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21-02-2014, 09:18 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:16 PM)donotwant Wrote:  In which borders? 1967 is a definite no go.

1967 is a starting point for negotiations. But I wonder, on which basis would you say it is a no go?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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21-02-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
In the basis that Israel was 3 times as small as it is now. Got attacked FIRST by 6 nations in the same time trying to get it annihilated.
Arabs lost land in the war they started and they are not getting it back and rightly so.
So which borders do you suggest? I don't think israel is gonna give up anything it has earned so far. So Palestinians should learn to be happy with what they got.
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21-02-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:12 PM)Youkay Wrote:  As a matter of fact, this thread mirrors people's general attitude quite well. Indifference, helplessness and a lack of indignation. People supporting posts that are either unproductive or even counter-productive. People believing in a never-ending conflict rather than actively and positively wanting to oppose misery. People accusing me with being self-righteous born out of their lack of sympathy.

That's because neither side in this is sympathetic and both sides have legitimate complaints. In the real world no there is no real solution because there is no political pressure to get one done. On one side you have the Israelis who have friends in high places but are borderline racist and very antagonistic. On the other side you have the Palestinians who would be sympathetic if they were not fully in support of terrorists and Genocide.

How does a 2 state solution work? Does Israel give over most of it's now developed land? How is that fair when it was not the Palestinians who built up those sections? Do we leave the Palestinians with what they have now, which is effectively nothing? That is unworkable.

However a 1 state solution is equally untenable at this juncture. Israel is not going to allow a huge population of militants into it's secure sections and lets face it there is no chance the Palestinians can militarily defeat the Israelis.

Someone mentioned a Gaza strip/West Bank divide and that would be even more suicidal. Pakistan and Bangladesh showed how bad that idea is and this would be done in an even resource poorer area.

Solutions would be for an Arab country to let most of the Palestinians become citizens of their country but nobody would go for that. They like using the plight of the Palestinians as a wag the dog tactic when their people get up in arms but do not give 2 fucks about their welfare.

Israel is not going away anytime soon and so long as Hamas is a main player in Palestinian politics (among other ultra militant groups) then no solution will be workable.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-02-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
(21-02-2014 09:22 PM)donotwant Wrote:  In the basis that Israel was 3 times as small as it is now. Got attacked FIRST by 6 nations in the same time trying to get it annihilated.
Arabs lost land in the war they started and they are not getting it back and rightly so.
So which borders do you suggest? I don't think israel is gonna give up anything it has earned so far. So Palestinians should learn to be happy with what they got.

This is just the mentality that causes this dilemma. Have you even had a look at any sources that I posted? The UN Human Rights report and the UNEP report? You would notice that Isreal is the party that deserves scorn and condemnation for creating a situation that is internationally and uniformly regarded as a humanitarian crisis.

Now, please read up first, and then I am happy to listen to you. But before that, I am afraid that, whatever your opinion I do not respect it.

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21-02-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: A solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict
One state solution is insanity. Nobody will agree to live next door to somebody who wants to get em killed. I know I wouldn't.
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