A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
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11-11-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(27-10-2016 06:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  They begin with a consciousness conscious only of itself, a contradiction in terms and an instance of pure self reference.

You might be referring to the Abstraction Origin problem. Or perhaps the Knowledge problem.
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13-11-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
I have a question. How can one detect counciousness inside AI?
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14-11-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
What if the brain didn't create consciousness? What if the brain just perceives it and intensifies it much like our eyes perceive sight and intensifies it (telescopic eyes ftw)
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15-11-2016, 01:03 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(14-11-2016 07:00 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  What if the brain didn't create consciousness? What if the brain just perceives it and intensifies it much like our eyes perceive sight and intensifies it (telescopic eyes ftw)

That has no explanatory power. What then is consciousness? How can we go about determining what it is? How would we measure it?

You do not get persistent complex patterns of energy without the use of matter. That matter is the brain.
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16-11-2016, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 12:20 PM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(15-11-2016 01:03 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 07:00 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  What if the brain didn't create consciousness? What if the brain just perceives it and intensifies it much like our eyes perceive sight and intensifies it (telescopic eyes ftw)

That has no explanatory power. What then is consciousness? How can we go about determining what it is? How would we measure it?

You do not get persistent complex patterns of energy without the use of matter. That matter is the brain.

The Greeks called it the Logos and to them it made the very substance of the universe.

The Greeks were right about a lot of things they couldn't observe, atoms being one of them Even that organisms could evolve into something else., And they were far more right on the things they could observe, making incredibly accurate measurements of the earth (Eratosthenes), the distance of the earth from the Sun (Archimedes).

Things that we could not come to know for another two thousand years.
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16-11-2016, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 03:22 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
The Greeks were also totally wrong about a lot of things, including Dualism, a concept which has (and continues to) bedevil humanity.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/dualism-religion

I invite anyone who thinks there is a "logos" driving the universe, to come and spend a month in the Pediatric Cancer ward out here.
I guarantee you will not think the same when you leave.
What IS *driving* the universe is :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-11-2016, 03:57 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 03:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The Greeks were also totally wrong about a lot of things, including Dualism, a concept which has (and continues to) bedevil humanity.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/dualism-religion

I invite anyone who thinks there is a "logos" driving the universe, to come and spend a month in the Pediatric Cancer ward out here.
I guarantee you will not think the same when you leave.
What IS *driving* the universe is :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Logos doesn't have to be benevolent.
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16-11-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
Logos is a nice ancient idea, that explained what they thought they perceived.
There is no evidence for it.
The Greeks were wrong about atoms. They are divisible. Big Grin
http://sciencenetlinks.com/lessons/histo...nt-greeks/

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-11-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 04:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Logos is a nice ancient idea, that explained what they thought they perceived.
There is no evidence for it.
The Greeks were wrong about atoms. They are divisible. Big Grin
http://sciencenetlinks.com/lessons/histo...nt-greeks/

Well they were going to be wrong about a lot of things as well

I'm just saying for people who were around over 2,000 years ago they had some incredible speculations of our world, and I'm sure if there was an Archimedes equivalent alive today we'd see a whole new world before us.

Archimedes was like a genius among geniuses in my eyes.

What does that say about our world today though? If the most prominent thinkers of the ancient world could be wrong about things like atoms or evolution. What could our prominent thinkers be wrong about?
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16-11-2016, 04:55 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 04:20 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 04:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Logos is a nice ancient idea, that explained what they thought they perceived.
There is no evidence for it.
The Greeks were wrong about atoms. They are divisible. Big Grin
http://sciencenetlinks.com/lessons/histo...nt-greeks/

Well they were going to be wrong about a lot of things as well

I'm just saying for people who were around over 2,000 years ago they had some incredible speculations of our world, and I'm sure if there was an Archimedes equivalent alive today we'd see a whole new world before us.

Archimedes was like a genius among geniuses in my eyes.

What does that say about our world today though? If the most prominent thinkers of the ancient world could be wrong about things like atoms or evolution. What could our prominent thinkers be wrong about?

Nothing.
They didn't have the scientific method.
They had no way to determine whether what they opined on, was true or not.
We do.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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