A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
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16-11-2016, 05:43 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 04:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 04:20 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Well they were going to be wrong about a lot of things as well

I'm just saying for people who were around over 2,000 years ago they had some incredible speculations of our world, and I'm sure if there was an Archimedes equivalent alive today we'd see a whole new world before us.

Archimedes was like a genius among geniuses in my eyes.

What does that say about our world today though? If the most prominent thinkers of the ancient world could be wrong about things like atoms or evolution. What could our prominent thinkers be wrong about?

Nothing.
They didn't have the scientific method.
They had no way to determine whether what they opined on, was true or not.
We do.

If that were true of science today there wouldn't be any controversy on the big bang or for that matter, whether time itself exists. Wink
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16-11-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 05:43 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 04:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nothing.
They didn't have the scientific method.
They had no way to determine whether what they opined on, was true or not.
We do.

If that were true of science today there wouldn't be any controversy on the big bang or for that matter, whether time itself exists. Wink

Science determines provisional truths. The scientific method invites controversy, but only where the evidence is scant or equivocal.

Don't look for absolute proofs from science. What you can get is knowing that something is definitely not true like astrology and homeopathy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-11-2016, 10:35 PM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 05:43 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 04:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nothing.
They didn't have the scientific method.
They had no way to determine whether what they opined on, was true or not.
We do.

If that were true of science today there wouldn't be any controversy on the big bang or for that matter, whether time itself exists. Wink

Wrong. There is no controversy about the Big Bang being the best explanation we have right now for what we observe. The scientific method works. As more is discovered, things change. Time does not exist. Space-time *is* one of the dimensions of this universe. There is no controversy about that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-11-2016, 01:35 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 10:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 05:43 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  If that were true of science today there wouldn't be any controversy on the big bang or for that matter, whether time itself exists. Wink

Wrong. There is no controversy about the Big Bang being the best explanation we have right now for what we observe. The scientific method works. As more is discovered, things change. Time does not exist. Space-time *is* one of the dimensions of this universe. There is no controversy about that.

Ain't no controversy if you don't go looking.
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17-11-2016, 04:46 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(17-11-2016 01:35 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 10:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wrong. There is no controversy about the Big Bang being the best explanation we have right now for what we observe. The scientific method works. As more is discovered, things change. Time does not exist. Space-time *is* one of the dimensions of this universe. There is no controversy about that.

Ain't no controversy if you don't go looking.

#GravityIsAConspiracyTheory Rolleyes

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-11-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(16-11-2016 12:13 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 01:03 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  That has no explanatory power. What then is consciousness? How can we go about determining what it is? How would we measure it?

You do not get persistent complex patterns of energy without the use of matter. That matter is the brain.

The Greeks called it the Logos and to them it made the very substance of the universe.

The Greeks were right about a lot of things they couldn't observe, atoms being one of them Even that organisms could evolve into something else., And they were far more right on the things they could observe, making incredibly accurate measurements of the earth (Eratosthenes), the distance of the earth from the Sun (Archimedes).

Things that we could not come to know for another two thousand years.

Doesn't mean to say that the Greeks weren't also wrong about a lot of things. And they are wrong about this.

As I said, "What then is consciousness? How can we go about determining what it is? How would we measure it?"

Calling it all Logos doesn't allow us to even go about answering these questions. Coming up with a hypothesis based on evidence does.
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17-11-2016, 04:58 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2016 05:14 AM by Celestial_Wonder.)
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(17-11-2016 04:46 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(17-11-2016 01:35 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Ain't no controversy if you don't go looking.

#GravityIsAConspiracyTheory Rolleyes

I was mainly referring to the similarities shared between electromagnetism and gravity...

You can read more about it here.

(17-11-2016 04:49 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Doesn't mean to say that the Greeks weren't also wrong about a lot of things. And they are wrong about this.

As I said, "What then is consciousness? How can we go about determining what it is? How would we measure it?"

Calling it all Logos doesn't allow us to even go about answering these questions. Coming up with a hypothesis based on evidence does.

If the Logos is the substance of the universe, we are going to have a very hard time measuring it, but then at that point at least it could possibly be measured. If the Logos is real, then it would mean that on some level the entire universe is 'alive' or 'conscious' in the very loosest definitions of those two words that can possibly be fathomed.
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17-11-2016, 05:11 AM
RE: A solution to the hard problem of consciousness
(17-11-2016 01:35 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 10:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wrong. There is no controversy about the Big Bang being the best explanation we have right now for what we observe. The scientific method works. As more is discovered, things change. Time does not exist. Space-time *is* one of the dimensions of this universe. There is no controversy about that.

Ain't no controversy if you don't go looking.

And where there is no smoke, there's probably not a fire. So deploying firemen in force is probably not the smartest use of time, energy, or resources.

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