A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
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10-01-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 01:44 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:00 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 12:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was going to respond on the assertion about my beliefs and explain why it's not Dues ex Machina and New Agey, but I really just don't feel like it. Huh

Sorry guys. One day maybe Rolleyes... just kind of in a "bleh" mood today. Dodgy

Also, Tom, let me try and find the stuff about Genesis that I wrote.



I look forward to reading your "stuff about Genesis" and to your feeling better. Big Grin

Taken from the Ask a Theist thread:

First, my Genesis framework needs to be established:

1) Normal evolution (as stated by science) occurred on earth.
2) Humanity eventually evolved.
3) God ordained humanity and placed His image upon us.
4) Adam was a literal man.
5) God made a covenant with Adam.
6) Adam and Eve weren’t the first humans; they were the first of God’s chosen.
7) I believe that Hebrew oral history predates other histories; however, their written does not.
8) The creation story of Genesis is written as cosmology – a way to convey a story to an audience.
9) The creation account is not meant to be taken literally; however, Adam was a literal person. The language of the creation story shifts from exalted to narrative when it begins with literal Adam’s history.
10) The Hebrews understood Adam as a “beginning” and he became synonymous with “origins”. He became known as an archetype for humanity according to the understanding of the Hebrews because he was the first of God’s chosen.
11) The cosmology of the creation story uses the concept of this Adamic beginning/archetype and conveys a story to the readers in a way that they would understand God’s covenant and purpose.
12) There was a literal Adam and a figurative Adam. The literal Adam’s symbolism of what he represented was used as a language (story).


Also, go here.

Oh and here.

Here too.

And, for more about what I believe theologically visit here, here, and here.

For more of my views go here.


OK. I have read much of your stuff and quite frankly you have not explained HOW you get to your position.
You state in many places WHAT you understand to be true, but not anything on HOW you decided what is right. You quote lots of scripture and various opinions of such which really means nothing and simply muddies the water. Maybe that is your intention for posting so much here all along.
Can we take your #4 from above as an example?
I failed to find the information that you used to determine that #4 is true.
How did you determine that? How do you KNOW this to be true? Same with #12.
From my understanding from what you have previously written you are just interpreting things as you like all fuzzy and nice.
Whatever YOU like fits YOUR own set of beliefs.
To my eye, unless you can demonstrate some methodology that is universally consistent, all of your arguments fail repeatedly.
That is the way I see it.
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10-01-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 05:39 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  OK. I have read much of your stuff and quite frankly you have not explained HOW you get to your position.
You state in many places WHAT you understand to be true, but not anything on HOW you decided what is right. You quote lots of scripture and various opinions of such which really means nothing and simply muddies the water.

Yes I did say how I got to those conclusions. Look at the second line of the Bible isn't 100% literal thread. And, I quote scripture to show how it coincides with my beliefs; thus, justifying them.

Quote:Maybe that is your intention for posting so much here all along.

Stop with the asinine, inane, backhanded comments. They are unneeded and get old.

Quote:Can we take your #4 from above as an example?
I failed to find the information that you used to determine that #4 is true.
How did you determine that? How do you KNOW this to be true?

The begetting in Genesis after the creation story... along with the details of his family.

Quote:Same with #12.

I explained this in my other points.

Quote:From my understanding from what you have previously written you are just interpreting things as you like all fuzzy and nice.

I'm trying to be as nice as possible, but this is starting to get annoying. I have detailed exactly how I reached these conclusions. I have studied the theology and ancient texts and history extensively. You say that you've read what I've written on this, yet you did not comprehend what I wrote; which leads me to believe you didn't read it.

Quote:Whatever YOU like fits YOUR own set of beliefs.

No, I've actually adjusted my theology (I've said this umpteen times) as my knowledge increased and as more evidence was presented. Again, something you said you read but must have not.

Quote:To my eye, unless you can demonstrate some methodology that is universally consistent, all of your arguments fail repeatedly.
That is the way I see it.

No. All my methodology is consistent. All of my theology is reconciled. My biggest scrutinizer Chas will even tell you this. My arguments do not fail under my adopted theological stances. Again, if you would have read what I wrote, we would not be discussing it.

I took the time to find all those threads and condense them into one post, yet you ask questions that are answered in the second line of the first post of one.

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10-01-2012, 08:10 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 07:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 05:39 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  OK. I have read much of your stuff and quite frankly you have not explained HOW you get to your position.
You state in many places WHAT you understand to be true, but not anything on HOW you decided what is right. You quote lots of scripture and various opinions of such which really means nothing and simply muddies the water.

Yes I did say how I got to those conclusions. Look at the second line of the Bible isn't 100% literal thread. And, I quote scripture to show how it coincides with my beliefs; thus, justifying them.

Quote:Maybe that is your intention for posting so much here all along.

Stop with the asinine, inane, backhanded comments. They are unneeded and get old.

Quote:Can we take your #4 from above as an example?
I failed to find the information that you used to determine that #4 is true.
How did you determine that? How do you KNOW this to be true?

The begetting in Genesis after the creation story... along with the details of his family.

Quote:Same with #12.

I explained this in my other points.

Quote:From my understanding from what you have previously written you are just interpreting things as you like all fuzzy and nice.

I'm trying to be as nice as possible, but this is starting to get annoying. I have detailed exactly how I reached these conclusions. I have studied the theology and ancient texts and history extensively. You say that you've read what I've written on this, yet you did not comprehend what I wrote; which leads me to believe you didn't read it.

Quote:Whatever YOU like fits YOUR own set of beliefs.

No, I've actually adjusted my theology (I've said this umpteen times) as my knowledge increased and as more evidence was presented. Again, something you said you read but must have not.

Quote:To my eye, unless you can demonstrate some methodology that is universally consistent, all of your arguments fail repeatedly.
That is the way I see it.

No. All my methodology is consistent. All of my theology is reconciled. My biggest scrutinizer Chas will even tell you this. My arguments do not fail under my adopted theological stances. Again, if you would have read what I wrote, we would not be discussing it.

I took the time to find all those threads and condense them into one post, yet you ask questions that are answered in the second line of the first post of one.

Now, now, KC

You can't be getting annoyed. Just because he's not one of your favorites on this board doesn't mean he isn't asking you anything different than anyone else. Let's be honest, nearly every atheist on this forum thinks your beliefs are delusional. Some might go as far as saying they know.

I think your lost as a goose but meh...it's my hope this forum will eventually make you come to your senses Smile

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— idiot adjective
See Republican Candidates.

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10-01-2012, 08:16 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 08:10 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Now, now, KC

You can't be getting annoyed. Just because he's not one of your favorites on this board doesn't mean he isn't asking you anything different than anyone else. Let's be honest, nearly every atheist on this forum thinks your beliefs are delusional. Some might go as far as saying they know.

I think your lost as a goose but meh...it's my hope this forum will eventually make you come to your senses Smile

Amen, brother.

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10-01-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
No, I just get tired of repeating myself, especially when I give him the answers. Moreover, it's even more annoying when he says I haven't answered the questions he's asking.

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10-01-2012, 08:25 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 08:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, I just get tired of repeating myself, especially when I give him the answers. Moreover, it's even more annoying when he says I haven't answered the questions he's asking.

It is clear and obvious circular thinking.
I'm so sorry you can't see that.
Maybe one day you will.
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10-01-2012, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 09:07 PM by Organon.)
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 09:31 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I've never given it any thought before and never heard it brought up in discussion. Why did it take God 6 days to create the Earth, heavens, stars, etc? Did God have to think about what he was going to do next? If he's all powerful and all knowing then I would assume that he should have know eons before creation that one day he would want to create a universe. And since he would have already known what his plan was he could have just created it instantaneously. Can God not see his own future? And speaking of God's decision making, why does God need to decide something. He decided that what he created was good. Could it just have easily turned out bad?


God sure has a lot of human characteristics.

Also, consider that he had to rest, lol! Honestly those cretins who wrote all that crap couldn't even design a story properly!

You're correct in saying that god has a lot of human characteristics. Gods always seem to for some strange reason!
(10-01-2012 10:16 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  He couldn't comprehend why God would need to use evolution and the Big Bang to create when his God is powerful enough to create in 6 days. I wanted scream at the idiot, "So your God isn't powerful enough to create everything with a snap of the fingers? He has to take 6 days to do it all? And then in a matter of a few centuries He decides it's evil and wants to wipe it all out?"

It also amazes me that the Christian god sent out 1 man and his disciples on foot on on asses to tell the whole World about Christianity when with all that power he could have told everyone on the planet with one big yell "It's me, I'm your God".

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11-01-2012, 08:54 AM
 
RE: A thought just occurred to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(10-01-2012 08:55 PM)Organon Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:31 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I've never given it any thought before and never heard it brought up in discussion. Why did it take God 6 days to create the Earth, heavens, stars, etc? Did God have to think about what he was going to do next? If he's all powerful and all knowing then I would assume that he should have know eons before creation that one day he would want to create a universe. And since he would have already known what his plan was he could have just created it instantaneously. Can God not see his own future? And speaking of God's decision making, why does God need to decide something. He decided that what he created was good. Could it just have easily turned out bad?


God sure has a lot of human characteristics.

Also, consider that he had to rest, lol! Honestly those cretins who wrote all that crap couldn't even design a story properly!

You're correct in saying that god has a lot of human characteristics. Gods always seem to for some strange reason!
(10-01-2012 10:16 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  He couldn't comprehend why God would need to use evolution and the Big Bang to create when his God is powerful enough to create in 6 days. I wanted scream at the idiot, "So your God isn't powerful enough to create everything with a snap of the fingers? He has to take 6 days to do it all? And then in a matter of a few centuries He decides it's evil and wants to wipe it all out?"

It also amazes me that the Christian god sent out 1 man and his disciples on foot on on asses to tell the whole World about Christianity when with all that power he could have told everyone on the planet with one big yell "It's me, I'm your God".

KC,
You have kinda painted yourself into a corner. You state the bible is not 100% accurate, but then you base your assumptions on the bible...which is not accurate...but thats where you get your facts...from a nonfactual book..........endless feedback loop.

You seem like a nice enough guy and have a somewhat open mind, but still seem to get caught in this loop by your own arguments that really dont make much sense. You seem to have Seer Stones that the rest of us are not privy to. An ability to discern what is factual and what is not.

I have been listening to some Dr Robert Price podcasts over the past 2 days that have me VERY intrigued. His claims that Israeli archaeologist can not find ANY evidence of a Nazareth at the time the bible claims there was.....
Kinda like saying ELVIS was from MEMPHIS in the year 200BCE. He even stated that as a young lad when he'd heard the claim he was appalled. No one ever seemed to challenge the claim of a historical Nazareth or Bethlehem. Well it seems historically both are doubtful. This intrigues me so much that i am gonna start studying the lit on this.

My point is 100% of all chrisitans believe in the literal cities...but what happens when HISTORY says differently? That makes the WHOLE bible as historical as any number of greeky myths.

You say the bible is not 100% accurate but you base your arguments on the bible, quite the shaky ground there.


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11-01-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
Up off of the KC. He ain't no idolater - scripture is merely a tao to god - not god in itself. Atheists. Angel

Numerology. Kineo hit it on page one. Beyond that is the Jewish identity, the six-pointed star, and the witchcraft of the opposing trines; whose outline is the hexagon. While witchcraft seems irrational today, one cannot help but observe that number and pattern were of great importance to a tribe of nomads that settled in to learn animal husbandry and agriculture.

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11-01-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
Denico, please stop saying things I did not say.

I never, ever said the Bible isn't 100% accurate. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said it wasn't 100% literal.

Stop it.

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