A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
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11-01-2012, 11:56 AM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(11-01-2012 11:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Denico, please stop saying things I did not say.

I never, ever said the Bible isn't 100% accurate. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said it wasn't 100% literal.

Stop it.

I suspect he's referring to the way that you have very tortuous interpretations to make the Bible say what you want it to say.
You two don't seem to define 'literal' the same way.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(11-01-2012 11:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Denico, please stop saying things I did not say.

I never, ever said the Bible isn't 100% accurate. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said it wasn't 100% literal.

Stop it.

?Huh?
I find it sadly strange, yet apparently true, that you place your entire belief system on a book that you admit to being inaccurate and less than 100% literal.
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11-01-2012, 12:08 PM
 
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(11-01-2012 11:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Denico, please stop saying things I did not say.

I never, ever said the Bible isn't 100% accurate. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said it wasn't 100% literal.

Stop it.

Literal...accurate....whatever.

What ever gets you thru your day man.

D
(11-01-2012 11:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 11:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Denico, please stop saying things I did not say.

I never, ever said the Bible isn't 100% accurate. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said it wasn't 100% literal.

Stop it.

I suspect he's referring to the way that you have very tortuous interpretations to make the Bible say what you want it to say.
You two don't seem to define 'literal' the same way.


Holding the prisim to the light in JUST the right way that he sees the colors he wants to see........... If it gets him thru the day, cool. Just sounds like cult-speak to me. I am sure Koresh did the same thing.

D
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11-01-2012, 12:53 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
We're talking about a story written by bronze age sheep herders - What do you expect ? These weren't modern day men with any advanced knowledge of how anything really works.
And it surely wasn't written or dictated from a god whispering in someone's ear as they were high on weed or whatever was the cultural equivalent at the time.

I remember an episode of Stargate in which two cultures had been at war for centuries over one detail in the genesis story.
One culture believed that god created the world in 6 days and the other believed it was created in 7 days - (something like that)
Millions of deaths, conflict world wide over something so trivial as which fairy tale story accurately describes something that never happened in the first place.

Admitting that you are contemplating the fairy tale rendition of how the universe came to exist is a first step.

Why did god need 6 days ? - Because he was lazy
Why did god need to rest ? - Again because he doesn't like to work. He's a lazy bum
People have been praying for centuries for god to do something and he he just keeps hitting the snooze alarm and says "5 more minutes, just 5 more minutes"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-01-2012, 01:47 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
KC,
First, I want to apologize for offending you personally in a post awhile ago, if that was the case. It's possible I went too far.
That said, I have another question for you regarding this post:

(10-01-2012 07:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, I've actually adjusted my theology (I've said this umpteen times) as my knowledge increased and as more evidence was presented.

My guess is that you continually "adjust" your theology to make it square with the bible, no matter how much gymnastics it requires. I see this all the time when I have conversations with Christians. If I point something out to them, they back off and make some excuse why what I'm stating is not what they meant, or not how it really is. The problem is, you can literally adjust forever, and must, in my opinion. Some do this, until they realize that that is what they are doing, just to make the bible make sense. At that point, the glasses come off and they use reason, just as they do in every other aspect of their lives.

I too, adjust my "beliefs" when new data is added to the big picture, if necessary. But only if science has determined what is being presented is considered to be a fact.

"Religion is the binky of a teen-age humanity."
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12-01-2012, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 08:55 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
"Literal" does not mean "accurate" or "inspired".

C'mon guys, you're smart... you can't obviously think that.

If I said, "Man, the new iPhone is too expensive... it's like a million dollars."

By your definition and your assertion of what I mean, my hyperbole is accurate in the literal sense... which is just ludicrous.

It's accurate in the figurative sense (it being expensive), but literally, it's not. But, did I mean it to be accurate in the literal sense? Obviously not. You understand the language I'm speaking to you, and if you actually thought that the phone was a million dollars you would be look at like a fool.
(11-01-2012 01:47 PM)yosemitesam Wrote:  KC,
First, I want to apologize for offending you personally in a post awhile ago, if that was the case. It's possible I went too far.
That said, I have another question for you regarding this post:

Not offended, it's just insulting that you would say that I might do something horrific and be on CNN. Really a pretty crappy thing to say to anyone. You don't know me personally and what laurels I stand on. I would never say something like that to someone who holds a different belief from me, let alone another human being.

(11-01-2012 12:08 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Just sounds like cult-speak to me. I am sure Koresh did the same thing.

D

See above. You know, it's pretty sad that both of you took this route. Ad hominems are never appropriate in any field of communication, and it's a shame that both of you stooped to that level.


(11-01-2012 01:47 PM)yosemitesam Wrote:  My guess is that you continually "adjust" your theology to make it square with the bible, no matter how much gymnastics it requires. I see this all the time when I have conversations with Christians. If I point something out to them, they back off and make some excuse why what I'm stating is not what they meant, or not how it really is. The problem is, you can literally adjust forever, and must, in my opinion. Some do this, until they realize that that is what they are doing, just to make the bible make sense. At that point, the glasses come off and they use reason, just as they do in every other aspect of their lives.

I too, adjust my "beliefs" when new data is added to the big picture, if necessary. But only if science has determined what is being presented is considered to be a fact.

My adjustments came at the revelation of new theological data that drastically changed the interpretation. Again, not arbitrary; not hasty.

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12-01-2012, 12:01 PM
RE: A thought just occured to me concerning Genesis and creation.
(12-01-2012 08:32 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 01:47 PM)yosemitesam Wrote:  KC,
First, I want to apologize for offending you personally in a post awhile ago, if that was the case. It's possible I went too far.
That said, I have another question for you regarding this post:

Not offended, it's just insulting that you would say that I might do something horrific and be on CNN. Really a pretty crappy thing to say to anyone. You don't know me personally and what laurels I stand on. I would never say something like that to someone who holds a different belief from me, let alone another human being.

(11-01-2012 12:08 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Just sounds like cult-speak to me. I am sure Koresh did the same thing.

D

See above. You know, it's pretty sad that both of you took this route. Ad hominems are never appropriate in any field of communication, and it's a shame that both of you stooped to that level.

Ultimately, all of your answers to our questions are born out of the desire to square your beliefs with the bible because of an experience you had:
(20-12-2011 05:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Driving home from work one day, my life changed. My heart was opened to a higher power; even though I didn't know whom. I'll try my best to explain this: I found myself suddenly and sincerely praying and listening to this higher power for guidance. This was wholly strange to me because up until that moment I didn't believe in a God that I could talk to.

My beliefs so drastically changed than I began to get angry with myself. I didn't understand how I could rationally accept that there was a higher power that I could converse with. It wasn't logical. Also, I never wanted to talk to a higher power, and I didn't understand how I was doing it if I didn't choose to. My knowledge of religion pre-empted the idea that I had to choose it.

The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God; however, I still didn’t understand why I didn’t get a choice. As my studying intensified, I began to learn about election. And then, it made sense. I realized that then reason I didn’t have a choice is because I was never planned to have a choice.

I knew that I was elect because I learned that those who are elect can hear the will of God and those that aren’t cannot even understand it.

So, that’s my evidence. I guess the most concrete part of it is the fact that my beliefs radically changed and became cemented by no choice of my own.

I've gone back and read quite a few of your posts, from this and other threads as well, and it's obvious that you've expended a huge amount of brain power on these answers, to make sure they work. Your position continues to evolve as you post your answers.
But by your own admission, you have no control over your belief whatsoever. In another post you made the statement "I don't know God's will." So, based on the observation that you believe you are chosen, or "elect", isn't it possible that you could one day get a message from god to do something, I'll just say 'extraordinary', and anyone here can fill in the blank of what that might be.

You're right; I don't know you. But you've posted a huge amount of information on your beliefs, and how you came to believe them. And honestly, if I had the same thing happen to me, I'm not sure how I would react. I do occasionally have "aha" moments, but nothing as intense as you've described. So, while "cult-like" might be too strong a term, I find your position a bit scary, simply because you're not in control of it.

"Religion is the binky of a teen-age humanity."
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