A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
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01-07-2013, 10:53 AM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
(30-06-2013 05:31 PM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  I suppose the real point of atheism isn't absolutely refuting the possibility of some sort of god -- only of refuting those gods believers actually believe in.

I disagree. And for the sake of clearity, this is a personal disagreeal the semantical concept of what an "atheist" is. I feel your diffenition is more one of an atheistic-agnostic.

My thought is as an Atheist, with a capital "A", it's not limited to Gods that are purported to exist, but the concept of "God/gods" as a whole. The way I think about it is like this...if anyone ever proved that God existed, than God would cess to be what we could consider a god. It would be an amazing thing to be sure. A created of the universe and all things. Though he would still have to answer what part of it he's actually had in any of it as everything seems to be running on it's own without him.

But if it were the case that God really existed then he would be a part of the natural world and the universe. Same concept as if we discovered the earth was a science experiment by some aliens to study abiogenesis and they were wildly successful. They could be said to be our creators, and perhaps some would choose to worship them as gods, because we may not be able to recognize the difference any more that protohumas would be able to recognize the difference between modern man and our technology than they would a god. For all we know these fictious aliens could have created our enter solar system, or even the entire galaxy, just for an experiment, but they would still simply be a part of the universe even if they did create the entire galaxy. God like to us perhapes, but not actually a god.

If a actual universe creater god existed it would just be part of the universe and another thing or phenomenon to study, like black holes, quasars, the higgs field or whatever else. Or like those fictious aliens I made up to illistrate the point. If God existed he would simple be some kind of Alien that is currently unknown to us or science.

But nontheless, if it did exist it still couldn't resemble anything in the bible...and again there for would not be God. I as an atheist can be open to other unknown things, but if we found them, by definition of God they could not be considered to be God.

...
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01-07-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
If you wanted to make a watch or build a suspension bridge, what natural process would you copy to achieve your goal ?
Evolution is a natural process. If you wanted to achieve something, you probably wouldn't use the natural process of evolution to do it.

Natural processes are messy, unstable and unpredictable.
Imagine taking a piece of wood, with a blind fold on and making a small cut on it with a hatchet.
Then after your one cut you give the piece of wood to another person who is blind folded and they make a cut.
This piece of wood is handed to another 5000 people who all blindly make their cut in the wood.

This piece of wood is now on sale at auction as a piece of art.
No one buys it or bids on it.

This process is repeated for another million times.
Eventually pieces will be presented that sell at auction and are regarded as fine pieces of art.

Those pieces will now be the templates that the blindfolded people can feel as they make their cut.
They will not be exact duplicates of any of the sold pieces, but they will be close.
They will be close enough to sell at auction.

This is a horrible way to create fine pieces of art. Lots of wasted time, lots of wasted material.

The same could be said of evolution. Lots of wasted time and wasted material and you have no idea what you will get.
This isn't a process that any intelligent designer would use.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-07-2013, 07:16 AM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
People who have "personal disagreeals" have surrendered their right to speak for atheism. Tongue

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02-07-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
(02-07-2013 07:16 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  People who have "personal disagreeals" have surrendered their right to speak for atheism. Tongue

.... there was someone who had a right to speak for atheism in the first place?

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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02-07-2013, 10:02 PM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
(30-06-2013 04:57 PM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  How would a Intelligent Designer deity proceed to create life on Earth?

I mean really intelligent, not a Bronze Age tyrant writ large by Bronze Age savages (as reinterpreted by modern apologists who have been sort of exposed to scientific ideas). An eternal being with full omniscience?

Wouldn't it be something that works with a minimum of effort after the initial creation, with or without a bit of subtle tweaking along the way?

In other words, a really intelligent Intelligent Designer would create by evolution, what with knowing the end from the beginning and not being in a hurry.

Thoughts?

There'd be no frriggen' mosquitoes.

But more seriously, there could be absolutely no evolution or natural selection. Such a process would lead to a world of disease, pestilence, and nature red in tooth and claw. Evolution results in species competing within and between each other, and that leads to suffering. If there was a creator who made this world intentionally, this is a creator who acts with extreme spite and malice towards its creation.
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03-07-2013, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2013 06:56 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
(30-06-2013 04:57 PM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  How would a Intelligent Designer deity proceed to create life on Earth?

I mean really intelligent, not a Bronze Age tyrant writ large by Bronze Age savages (as reinterpreted by modern apologists who have been sort of exposed to scientific ideas). An eternal being with full omniscience?

Wouldn't it be something that works with a minimum of effort after the initial creation, with or without a bit of subtle tweaking along the way?

In other words, a really intelligent Intelligent Designer would create by evolution, what with knowing the end from the beginning and not being in a hurry.

Thoughts?

This is simple. An intelligent being very well may have placed/created life on this planet. It's an option I remain open to if the scientific evidence eventuality leads to that.

The idea of a perfect being creating life logically speaking is the least likely scenario for life. Due to the fact that for any kind of decision to be made that being must imply imperfection, and the ability to change.

God as a label for perfection is the only definition I oppose. The other definitions have other words that describe the things they call god.

One must also consider if a supreme being was imperfect, emotional, ever changing, extremely powerful, and capable of evil, worthy of worship or the title of god?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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04-07-2013, 06:59 AM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
I'm with Bryan on the mosquitoes--if they were designed, what was the designer thinking?!

Any easing of the suffering that nature causes is done by human (air conditioning and insect repellent being biggies in Mississippi). I see no evidence of a celestial being developing medical advances, aiding war refugees, or doing anything else to help our quality of life. I heard of no god stopping, for example, the killing of Jews in WW2. Last I heard humans had to take care of stopping that.

I don't know how we got here and can't prove that a being created this place or did not, but it sure doesn't look like it to me. Or, if so, as others have said, it would not be a benevolent one.

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05-07-2013, 01:31 AM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
I would think an intelligent, enlightened designer would give males a urinary tract that didn't run through a swollen prostate.

It might also make women more logical and prone to listening to their hubbies, but that's just my cynical opinion. Wink

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06-07-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
Watch it Diogenes, I'm a woman and I bought your book :-)

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06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: A thought on 'Intelligent Design' (not a disproof))
What? No one asked what type of designer this is? Do we have an all-powerful one? Or is it more like the smartest human being?

The limitations of the creator matter for me if you're going to ask what I think they would do.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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