AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
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23-10-2016, 02:51 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2016 03:11 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
Here is research which has led to baclofen and arbaclofen placarbil being trailled for alcoholism:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18068515

Here is the story behind arbaclofen:

http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/01/ho...ction-too/
http://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/cns/42666

There are other drugs which are being used such as Naltrexone and Nalmafene but their pharmacology is different in that they are Gaba A antagonist rather than Gaba B agonists. Gabapentin is also a Gaba b agonist and being supported by the director of the NIH alcoholism section, Dr. George Koob: http://www.nature.com/nrd/journal/v8/n6/...d2828.html

I have listed all of the articles on baclofen below but if you want to have a link to them they are here, just go to the link and click on abstract or full text: http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org/topic...ete-list/:

Essential Baclofen Research:
The Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcoholism - For Use by Physicians (abstract) (full-text)
Studies Showing Baclofen's Effectiveness in treating Alcoholism
High-dose baclofen for the treatment of alcohol dependence (BACLAD study): a randomized, placebo-controlled trial. (abstract) (full-text)
Suppression of alcohol dependence using baclofen: a 2-year observational study of 100 patients. (abstract) (full-text)
Abstinence and 'low-risk' consumption 1 year after the initiation of high-dose baclofen: a retrospective study among 'high-risk' drinkers. (abstract) (full-text)
High-Dose Baclofen for Treatment-Resistant Alcohol Dependence. (abstract) (full-text)
The use of very high-doses of baclofen for the treatment of alcohol-dependence: A case series. (abstract) (full-text)
Effectiveness and safety of baclofen for maintenance of alcohol abstinence in alcohol-dependent patients with liver cirrhosis: randomised, double-blind controlled study. (abstract) (full-text)
Correlates of baclofen effectiveness in alcohol dependence. (abstract) (full-text)
Complete and prolonged suppression of symptoms and consequences of alcohol-dependence using high-dose baclofen: A self-case report of a physician. (abstract) (full-text)
Suppression of symptoms of alcohol dependence and craving using high-dose baclofen. (abstract) (full-text)
Off-label baclofen prescribing practices among French alcohol specialists: Results of a national online survey. (abstract) (full-text)
Pharmacotherapy for Alcohol Dependence: The 2015 Recommendations of the French Alcohol Society, Issued in Partnership with the European Federation of Addiction Societies. (abstract)

Studies showing the Safety and Pharmacokinetics of long-term High-dose Baclofen treatment
High-dose oral baclofen: Experience in patients with Multiple Sclerosis. (abstract) (full-text)
Clinical and Pharmacokinetic Aspects of High Dose Oral Baclofen. (abstract) (full-text)
Baclofen Side-effects

Tolerability of High-dose Baclofen in the Treatment of Patients with Alcohol Disorders: A Retrospective Study. (abstract) (full-text)
Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclofen. (abstract) (full-text)
The nocebo effect: patient expectations and medication side effects. (abstract) (full-text)
Baclofen Withdrawal (While Baclofen is not addictive in the conventional medical use of the word - tolerance, dose escalation, and drug cravings do not occur among recipients - physical dependence is a feature of medium to long term use in all users - IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO NEVER STOP TAKING BACLOFEN ABRUPTLY, OR TO TAPER OFF TOO RAPIDLY)

What to do if you are running out (or low on) Baclofen. (full-text)
Delirium Associated With Baclofen Withdrawal: A Review of Common Presentations and Management Strategies (abstract) (full-text)
Baclofen Overdose (Baclofen is a very safe drug and serious injuries/fatalities due to misuse are extremely rare - even in the case of massive, deliberate overdose. That said, it is possible to hurt yourself by taking too much Baclofen at once)

Baclofen overdose: Defining the spectrum of toxicity (abstract) (full-text)
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23-10-2016, 04:59 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(22-10-2016 01:06 PM)Fireball Wrote:  I'll be your friend. Electronically, at least. Thumbsup

Count me in too Fred. Smile
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23-10-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(23-10-2016 04:59 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(22-10-2016 01:06 PM)Fireball Wrote:  I'll be your friend. Electronically, at least. Thumbsup

Count me in too Fred. Smile

Ditto.

#sigh
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23-10-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
That's very kind of you guys.

Thanks for the love.
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23-10-2016, 07:44 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(22-10-2016 07:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-10-2016 09:54 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Alcoholism in many cases is simply a misunderstood neurological problem which can be treated medically.

Have you any support for this claim?

What else could it be other than out of whack neurotransmitters, Chasmeister? Certainly not a lack of willpower or character defect (which themselves are also out of whack neurotransmitters).

#sigh
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23-10-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(23-10-2016 07:44 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-10-2016 07:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  Have you any support for this claim?

What else could it be other than out of whack neurotransmitters, Chasmeister? Certainly not a lack of willpower or character defect (which themselves are also out of whack neurotransmitters).

Well, to be fair, it could be a defective "psyche" or maybe the "Id" has gone wrong.No
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23-10-2016, 07:59 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2016 08:04 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
What I have found very strange about this is that if someone came up with a new theory on cancer and its treatment, which helped a huge number of people, it would be welcomed. What happens with this treatment is that people have a very individual response to the news alone. I spoke to a doctor the other day and mentioned this to him and he said he would never use it. I asked why and he said, "because of the side effects". I asked if he knew anything about the side effects and he said "no" and, also, he had never heard of the drug. That to me is an example of clinical negligence in action. Ignore a new treatment, and go into denial citing a reason that has no meaning simply out of... I can't think of a word for it, but it is, unfortunately, a common response to this.
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23-10-2016, 08:06 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2016 08:37 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(23-10-2016 02:51 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Here is research which has led to baclofen and arbaclofen placarbil being trailled for alcoholism:
...
There are other drugs which are being used such as Naltrexone and Nalmafene but their pharmacology is different in that they are Gaba A antagonist rather than Gaba B agonists. Gabapentin is also a Gaba b agonist and being supported by the director of the NIH alcoholism section, Dr. George Koob: http://www.nature.com/nrd/journal/v8/n6/...d2828.html

You left out Campral.

Baclofen - titrated up to 250 mg/day for 8 weeks - felt a little loopy and a bit groggy, no effect on alcohol consumption.

Campral - didn't notice a damn thing, no effect on alcohol consumption.

Naltraxelone - no effect when taken regularly, slightly diminished consumption if taken 1 hour prior.

Benzos - moderately diminished consumption, black outs, ineffective and high risk.

Antabuse - ain't happening.

What is working for me is tea. All different types of tea. Black tea, white tea, green tea, oolong tea, pu-erh tea. T is the key.
[Image: T_zpsr2anw4hz.jpg]

Curiously what I've noticed in my readings is that there seems to be a different treatment philosophy between doctors in the US treating alcoholism and those in Europe. In the US it seems to be accepted without question that abstinence is the only viable treatment while in Europe and elsewhere they seem to try and restore the patient to a non-abuse drinker. Am pretty much indifferent if not mildly repulsed by the thought of booze at the moment but I'm not foolish enough to say to myself I'll swear it off forever.

#sigh
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23-10-2016, 08:35 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
del

For me, the degree to which my brain function would have to be altered to make me disinclined to binge drink and to not crave alcohol would be so profound I'm afraid to address it chemically. I feel like that would be akin to a lobotomy. I don't know anything about what you're talking about so I can't unequivocally say you're off base but I can say I'm not interested in being among the first wave of patients to try this route.

Alcoholism was killing me because the volume of alcohol I was consuming was poisoning me. That makes it fundamentally different than cancer. Without action cancer will devour me. Alcohol cannot hurt me unless I drink it. For that reason I consider your comparison to cancer to be a false equivalency.
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23-10-2016, 08:35 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(23-10-2016 07:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I spoke to a doctor the other day and mentioned this to him and he said he would never use it. I asked why and he said, "because of the side effects". I asked if he knew anything about the side effects and he said "no" and, also, he had never heard of the drug.

Baclofen is a common antispasmodic muscle relaxant. My wife's been on 30 mg/day for years. Pretty sure I wouldn't go to a doctor who was unfamiliar with it.

(23-10-2016 07:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  That to me is an example of clinical negligence in action. Ignore a new treatment, and go into denial citing a reason that has no meaning simply out of... I can't think of a word for it, but it is, unfortunately, a common response to this.

Not knowing about the drug might be negligent, but not knowing about current trials of all the drugs out there? Well I don't think I'd consider my GP negligent for not being as personally interested in a particular ailment as I am. And I think a GP administering it in the dosages suggested @ 250-300 mg/day would probably qualify as negligent until the safety and efficacy is established by these trials. You might be able to find a shrink who would risk it but I bet you'd have to look long and hard.

#sigh
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