AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
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26-07-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(25-07-2016 08:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not every meeting ends with the Lord's Prayer. In fact, those that do are in the minority in my area.

Down here in Tejas, every one I've been to has. It's all good, I kept my mouth shut ... whatever gets you through the night, 'salright, 'salright.

(25-07-2016 09:35 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's pretty much unheard of in these parts. But I've never been to an AA meeting I don't know what they do over here in AA meetings.

Forgive my pointedness, but if you haven't been to an AA meeting and don't know what they do, why do you feel comfortable enough to write that it's unheard-of in your parts? AA meetings are like Vegas, what goes on there stays there. How do you know it's unheard-of?
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26-07-2016, 04:35 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
Shout Amen!
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26-07-2016, 08:15 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(25-07-2016 10:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  For me, "dry drunk" isn't about whether you ascribe to faith, but whether you're addressing the underlying issues which make you think intoxication is a rational response to reality.

Hey now. I never agreed to give up inebriation. I need to give up alcohol. Giving up all sources of inebriation is not part of my agenda.

#sigh
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26-07-2016, 08:18 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(25-07-2016 08:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  Have fun doing it on your own. Drinking Beverage

Make friends; mutually support each other; go to group therapy.

I have a shrink, a therapist, and an alcoholic wife who's been off alcohol for 5 years. Don't need no group setting and neither did my wife. Doesn't mean we're doing it on "our own".

#sigh
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26-07-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
Yet another example of religion digging its claws into people when they're at their worst, in their most desperate hours, and enforcing the idea that the "sinner" is wretched and low by birth and powerless to face his own problems without divine intervention. Substance addiction replaced by a state of self-imposed misery with God as the only solution. One type of "fix" exchanged for another. Disgusting. People use drugs and religions for many of the same reasons, to avoid responsibility for facing and dealing with their problems.

I've known a fair few people who've gone through AA, NA, etc. Some of whom I firmly believe wouldn't be alive today without the help they received. And don't get me wrong, I'm proud of these people for having the guts to go through the process. But virtually every single one of them came out a god-fearing automaton as a result. Yes they got the tools they needed to kick (or at least keep in check) their addictions, but they lost their self-confidence and resolve in the process. I think it's questionable whether or not that's a good trade.
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26-07-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(26-07-2016 04:24 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 09:35 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's pretty much unheard of in these parts. But I've never been to an AA meeting I don't know what they do over here in AA meetings.

Forgive my pointedness, but if you haven't been to an AA meeting and don't know what they do, why do you feel comfortable enough to write that it's unheard-of in your parts? AA meetings are like Vegas, what goes on there stays there. How do you know it's unheard-of?
Fair enough comment.

I was talking about group meetings in general, (not just AA meetings).

I've seen a youtube clip of a school board meeting, where all the time was taken up singing hymns and praising Jesus. I really don't know what it is like in some parts of the USA but it appears that prayer isn't limited to church or AA meetings.
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26-07-2016, 02:48 PM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(26-07-2016 10:08 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Yet another example of religion digging its claws into people when they're at their worst, in their most desperate hours, and enforcing the idea that the "sinner" is wretched and low by birth and powerless to face his own problems without divine intervention. Substance addiction replaced by a state of self-imposed misery with God as the only solution. One type of "fix" exchanged for another. Disgusting. People use drugs and religions for many of the same reasons, to avoid responsibility for facing and dealing with their problems.

I've known a fair few people who've gone through AA, NA, etc. Some of whom I firmly believe wouldn't be alive today without the help they received. And don't get me wrong, I'm proud of these people for having the guts to go through the process. But virtually every single one of them came out a god-fearing automaton as a result. Yes they got the tools they needed to kick (or at least keep in check) their addictions, but they lost their self-confidence and resolve in the process. I think it's questionable whether or not that's a good trade.

Your friends' experiences are really surprising to me. I never hid my atheism in any AA or NA meeting and I never had anyone try to convert me to any belief as a result. The only people I knew who lost their self-confidence and resolve by going to AA or NA meetings tended to be those who were getting their confidence and resolve from drugs or alcohol. I do hope your friends' religious brainwashing wears off without them losing their desire to stay clean.
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26-07-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(26-07-2016 02:48 PM)TheQueenOfFrogs Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:08 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Yet another example of religion digging its claws into people when they're at their worst, in their most desperate hours, and enforcing the idea that the "sinner" is wretched and low by birth and powerless to face his own problems without divine intervention. Substance addiction replaced by a state of self-imposed misery with God as the only solution. One type of "fix" exchanged for another. Disgusting. People use drugs and religions for many of the same reasons, to avoid responsibility for facing and dealing with their problems.

I've known a fair few people who've gone through AA, NA, etc. Some of whom I firmly believe wouldn't be alive today without the help they received. And don't get me wrong, I'm proud of these people for having the guts to go through the process. But virtually every single one of them came out a god-fearing automaton as a result. Yes they got the tools they needed to kick (or at least keep in check) their addictions, but they lost their self-confidence and resolve in the process. I think it's questionable whether or not that's a good trade.

Your friends' experiences are really surprising to me. I never hid my atheism in any AA or NA meeting and I never had anyone try to convert me to any belief as a result. The only people I knew who lost their self-confidence and resolve by going to AA or NA meetings tended to be those who were getting their confidence and resolve from drugs or alcohol. I do hope your friends' religious brainwashing wears off without them losing their desire to stay clean.

At AA you are constantly told you must have a ''higher power" and it's clear through the literature and the rhetoric it's of a supernatural interventionist sort. The language is clear. You have to work the steps and the steps involve "God". Working the steps honestly and being an atheists is not possible. They directly contradict each other. You either have to cheat the steps or the God part.

I agree with you Boston. It is like that. Everyone at AA says the same shit like a brain dead robot.

As for me, I'm keeping my atheism because I have no choice. I cannot believe. I'm also keeping my intellect. They can act like cult members who can't think for themselves and swear up and down I can't do it without submitting to their steps but fuck that, I'm keeping my individuality, I'm not going to pretend there's a magic higher power, and I am not going to relapse. I'm keeping it all.
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26-07-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
(26-07-2016 03:55 PM)ImFred Wrote:  At AA you are constantly told you must have a ''higher power" ...

Think Chas considered his the group itself. What if I said "You mean like Freud's superego?"

#sigh
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26-07-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: AA - Atheists and Alcoholism
That's fine. But that's NOT what it means. It means some sort of God. Sure you can work around it but you cannot work around it and do the program honestly.

But fuck honesty if it works. But that shit won't work for me. I'm not like that.
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