ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
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04-08-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(04-08-2016 05:58 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 01:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aetna covers both acupuncture and chiropractice for me. Must be something to it or my insurance wouldn't cover it. There are conditions though. I think they both have to be licensed MDs who are using them for ancillary treatment.
It's easier to pay the bills than fight the woo. I know I used to work auto claims for St*te F*rm.

Now that I didn't think of. Thumbsup

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There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-08-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(02-08-2016 04:31 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Friends of Science in Medicine, an Australian anti-quackery group with more than 1,100 members, has issued a devastating report calling for an end to acupuncture as a medical practice. After summarizing acupuncture history, theories, research, and rationalisations for failed studies, the authors conclude:

• Acupuncture has been studied for decades, and the evidence that it can provide clinical benefits continues to be weak and inconsistent. There is no longer any justification for more studies. There is already enough evidence to confidently conclude that acupuncture doesn't work. It is merely a theatrical placebo based on pre-scientific myths.

• All health care providers who accept that they should base their treatments on scientific evidence whenever credible evidence is available, but who still include acupuncture as part of their health interventions, should seriously revise their practice. There is no place for acupuncture in medicine.

• For many years, proponents have cited as supporting evidence a World Health Organization (WHO) report that listed over 90 conditions for which acupuncture was supposedly effective. In 2014, however, this this report withdrawn in response to substantial evidence contradicting the WHO's advice, including Cochrane Collaboration reviews that shredded the majority of claims.

—For further reading: Ten Things You Need To Know About Acupuncture.

Dodgy

If I was president of the U.S, I would ban Acupuncture, Homeopathy and chiropractic practice as medical practice or alternatives. I would make it a felony to use faith healing of a punishment up to

1. Twenty years in prison to the healer if the patient was an adult.
2. Life in prison to the healer if the patient was a child
3. No punishment for the patient
4. Death Sentence to the parent of any child if the child who dies as a result of not taking real medicine who substituted the illegal practice of faith healing instead of real meds.
5. Twenty years in prison to the parent if the child is harmed but not killed as a result of faith healing.
6. If the child is not harmed but faith healing was taken instead of real medicine than the parents must take two thousand hours of community service.


oh, and crystal therapy and bee stings. Those are gone too.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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06-08-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(04-08-2016 01:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aetna covers both acupuncture and chiropractic for me. Must be something to it or my insurance wouldn't cover it. [...]

They only cover them because the premium one pays allows it. It certainly doesn't imply Aetna believes that pseudo-science actually works. Many health funds include any old bullshit just so they can pump up people's premiums—because they think they're getting more for their money. Catch 22.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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06-08-2016, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2016 12:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(06-08-2016 12:25 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 01:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aetna covers both acupuncture and chiropractic for me. Must be something to it or my insurance wouldn't cover it. [...]

They only cover them because the premium one pays allows it. It certainly doesn't imply Aetna believes that pseudo-science actually works. Many health funds include any old bullshit just so they can pump up people's premiums—because they think they're getting more for their money. Catch 22.

My health insurance costs me and my bigass family around $200 month. You fuckers put in another $500/month (not literally you Syz 'cause you don't live in the States.). There is nobody more deserving of your charity than Girly. God bless you all. Praise Jesus! The Lord is GOD! Girly is God. .... bitches

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-08-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(06-08-2016 12:25 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 01:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aetna covers both acupuncture and chiropractic for me. Must be something to it or my insurance wouldn't cover it. [...]

They only cover them because the premium one pays allows it. It certainly doesn't imply Aetna believes that pseudo-science actually works. Many health funds include any old bullshit just so they can pump up people's premiums—because they think they're getting more for their money. Catch 22.

My more cynical side figures that the woo payments are cheaper and every time they get somebody to delay or, better yet, avoid real treatment they increase the bottom line.

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America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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06-08-2016, 06:22 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(03-08-2016 10:49 PM)gever570 Wrote:  For some conditions that acupuncturists claimed to be effective for I didn't find helpful. But it really helped with pain in the ankle that years of physio failed to do

I went to an acupuncturist twice. I could see both of her hands on my left ankle, but could feel her touching the same place on my other leg. After my second visit I was at home and found she had left one of her needles in my ankle. I didn't go back nor did I send her needle back to her.
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07-08-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
Hi,

Never had acupuncture but I know several people that have reported benefits, short and long term. The mention of 'placebo' effect is most interesting. We use the word often, but are there scientific studies on the placebo effect?

Of course, that would be a different thread.

D.
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07-08-2016, 05:18 AM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
I do agree that it is all woo but I don't think banning it is the right step. A lot of things are just woo and they are not banned (religion anybody?).
Acupuncture is pretty harmless over all and it give you a placebo effect if you believe in it.
Especially when it is really just about pain relief because relaxation is a big part of getting rid of some pains (stress, psycho somatic,...) and if acupuncture is nothing else, it is probably very relaxing.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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07-08-2016, 01:26 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
(07-08-2016 05:18 AM)Leela Wrote:  Acupuncture is pretty harmless over all and it give you a placebo effect if you believe in it. [...]

One of the major issues with acupuncture—and other pseudo-scientific "alternative" medicine—is that there's a real and documented risk that they cause people to avoid and/or discount scientifically-proven conventional medicine. In the case of cancer, this has led to avoidable deaths. These sham treatments may well, in and of themselves, be harmless, but it's the absence of genuine treatment that presents the real danger. The other issue of course is the ethics of gullible people paying quacks money in return for something that doesn't—and can't—work as claimed.

A health or medical practice is called "alternative" if it's based on untested, untraditional, or unscientific principles, methodology, or knowledge. Most treatments that are called alternative medicine should be more accurately described as alternatives to medicine, since they're not really medicine at all. And the more alternative medicine—or quackery—that we can ban, the better.

You might like to check THIS out, and also THIS, THIS, and THIS.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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07-08-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: ACUPUNCTURE—Calls for banning in Australia
Insurance should not cover pseudo-treatments.

Alternative treatments are one thing, but modalities that are proven to be nonsense should not be paid for by insurers.

Of course, people still buy bullshit like Reiki, homeopathy, etc. but at least I don't pay for it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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