ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
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16-10-2012, 02:32 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 02:23 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  It's amazing the things Craig gets away with in his lectures. I was watching him debate the probability of the resurrection of Jesus using an mathematical formula for probability. His comment went something like this:

"Is it plausible that Jesus rose from the dead by means of natural causes? Of course not. But is it plausible that Jesus rose from the dead by means of supernatural causes? Absolutely."

He then goes on, without any thought to how plausible the existence of the supernatural actually is, to show that the resurrection is mathematically on the probable side.

Here's his debate with Bart Ehrman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...hT4IENSwac

He gets owned by Ehrman in this debate, but in true Craig fashion, keeps repeating his old points as if they're still relevant. The sad thing is that Craig is intelligent enough to spin verbal trickery around lesser educated opponents, and he never leaves his comfort zone in a debate. Knock down one of his points, and he'll just prop it right back up as if nothing happened. I can see why Christians love him.

Yup, exactly. He just kept going back to how God is outside of time, space, material, etc like he 'proved' before with his cosmology farce, which he never did but in his Christian circle reasoning he thinks he did.
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16-10-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 02:03 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Having been involved in these sorts of things in the past, there is a heavy reliance upon Confirmation Bias.

"I think God is real so everything I look at and hear and say shows that I am right and non-believers are just deluded."

Sorry you missed out on the cookies. Those Fuckers. No

This was the only thing going for them this evening, was the brainwash tactic, because nothing else was holding up.

Yeah, those fuckers! Going to have to wait for mom2 to come in a couple weeks with her Christian baking now... she's won awards! Mmmm.
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16-10-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 02:23 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  It's amazing the things Craig gets away with in his lectures. I was watching him debate the probability of the resurrection of Jesus using an mathematical formula for probability. His comment went something like this:

"Is it plausible that Jesus rose from the dead by means of natural causes? Of course not. But is it plausible that Jesus rose from the dead by means of supernatural causes? Absolutely."

He then goes on, without any thought to how plausible the existence of the supernatural actually is, to show that the resurrection is mathematically on the probable side.

Here's his debate with Bart Ehrman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...hT4IENSwac

He gets owned by Ehrman in this debate, but in true Craig fashion, keeps repeating his old points as if they're still relevant. The sad thing is that Craig is intelligent enough to spin verbal trickery around lesser educated opponents, and he never leaves his comfort zone in a debate. Knock down one of his points, and he'll just prop it right back up as if nothing happened. I can see why Christians love him.

Here is my rebuttal to Craig's "Resurrection Equation" with Ehrman. (scroll down).
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...g%27s+Crap

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16-10-2012, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2012 04:41 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
Great report LJ. We need to write it up, and title the thread, as such, so it comes up in a search engine search. I can do it, or we can do it together, along with anyone who wants to help. We can refute everything point by point, for the world to see. There are also academic Theological points which Craig either knows nothing about, (as he's an Evangelical Fundamentalist), or ignores, (belief as moral choice etc). We can use his own system against him.
"Many are called, but few are chosen", etc.
1. We DON"T know, (outside of a gospel), that Jesus was put in a tomb, or was even crucified. The trials in the gospels differ substantially, AND WHO exactly was there to report ? They say they all fled, AND the day of the death is DIFFERENT. There is NO conceivable way, that there was a "recorder" actually the room with Jesus during his sessions with Pilate or any of the other authorities. NO OTHER trials of "nobody" insurrectionist/trouble-makers were important enough to take note of, "word for word".
2. They say it's a "physical body", but not. (went through walls) = "zombie" body. Whatever it is, it's NOT a "usual" physical body. Some when seeing him did not recognize him.
3. What happened to all the others who were raised in Matthew 27:52, the earthquake, (not recorded by Roman historians who DID record all other earthquakes at the time), no "split rocks ever seen, temple curtain "rent" never recorded in Judaism ?? If there really was a zombie invasion THAT would have been mentioned by an historian.
4. Miracles were not perceived to have been done only by Jesus, or about Jesus Miracle perception in "magical thinking" culture are proof of nothing. Miracles were ubiquitous.
5. The gospels were faith documents for use in liturgical services for believers, telling/reminding believers what they already believed. They mean nothing.
6. "evil" is ancient paradigm for "unfortunate for individuals", (not groups), among other things, as well as "Chaos" from Sumerian myths.
7. "outside space-time" is Special Pleading, to which, (we have on tape), Licona answered "I don't know".
8. They have no proof of anyone walking away in droves. If so, it's "argumentum ad populum", anyway.
9. Winning debates is not the way to approach an honest search for truth. No time to reflect. It's NOT how truth is arrived at.
10. If the only legitimate outcome is HIS truth, it's not a legitimate search for truth.
11. All individual anecdotes are easily refuted.

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16-10-2012, 03:20 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 02:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Here is my rebuttal to Craig's "Resurrection Equation" with Ehrman. (scroll down).
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...g%27s+Crap

I knew there was something fishy about it. How, for one, do you quantify "background knowledge and data" and "evidence of the resurrection", and who decides your result is an acceptable value?

Craig isn't dumb. When the 'truth' requires deliberate trickery and sleight of hand, it all but tells me he's interested in trying to 'win' versus discovering what's true. What a waste of talent. I actually enjoy listening to some of his philosophy... until he makes his inevitable 'Jesus Jump.'

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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16-10-2012, 03:24 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 03:20 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(16-10-2012 02:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Here is my rebuttal to Craig's "Resurrection Equation" with Ehrman. (scroll down).
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...g%27s+Crap

I knew there was something fishy about it. How, for one, do you quantify "background knowledge and data" and "evidence of the resurrection", and who decides your result is an acceptable value?

Craig isn't dumb. When the 'truth' requires deliberate trickery and sleight of hand, it all but tells me he's interested in trying to 'win' versus discovering what's true. What a waste of talent. I actually enjoy listening to some of his philosophy... until he makes his inevitable 'Jesus Jump.'
"I knew there was something fishy about it" lol. When I talked to Ehrman about it, he said EXCATLY the same thing !! heh heh
The probability of a human rising from the dead is 0. The background information is 0. Everything is 0. 0/0=0, NOT 1. Tongue

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16-10-2012, 03:30 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
Bucky I'll jump on that bandwagon Big Grin I had more stuff specifically that he (and entourage) discussed. Each point they made could have gone on whole tangents and face palming events. I was sitting there trying not to shake my head or roll my eyes.

This talk, if not now but soon, could probably be found and linked too. Craig said he puts everything up online (I add once he makes the money from them, lol).
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16-10-2012, 03:44 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 03:30 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Bucky I'll jump on that bandwagon Big Grin I had more stuff specifically that he (and entourage) discussed. Each point they made could have gone on whole tangents and face palming events. I was sitting there trying not to shake my head or roll my eyes.

This talk, if not now but soon, could probably be found and linked too. Craig said he puts everything up online (I add once he makes the money from them, lol).

Cool. I'll watch for it, to be posted, (I would bet the comments will be disabled.) and start it. You can add to it, and we can ask Vosur to check my poor construction. Hopefully he will do a final edit. Big Grin

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16-10-2012, 04:01 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
You know, it would be cool to do a series of video clips where you can watch a single argument by Craig, followed by a text or video rebuttal to the argument. It would be a great resource to have, where you could look up individual Craig arguments and the counters to them. I'd be interested in helping with this project. I do video editing at work... anyone do voice over work?

We could start a channel and launch four or five of these videos. And enable the comments, of course, because that's half the fun of youtube.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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16-10-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: ALERT "Unpacking Atheism" by William Lane craig and Lee Strobel
(16-10-2012 04:01 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  You know, it would be cool to do a series of video clips where you can watch a single argument by Craig, followed by a text or video rebuttal to the argument. It would be a great resource to have, where you could look up individual Craig arguments and the counters to them. I'd be interested in helping with this project. I do video editing at work... anyone do voice over work?

We could start a channel and launch four or five of these videos. And enable the comments, of course, because that's half the fun of youtube.

Cool. That would be fun. Lightninlives mostly, (with input from me), is doing one on Creationism/Probability/Intelligent Design.

If you see the "Unpacking" video out, before I do, let us know. They can turn off the comments. They can't stop us from posting our own videos.
I don't do voice-over, but I could record the audio. My voice is fine, (as long as I don't talk too fast Weeping ).

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