ALS ice challenge
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19-08-2014, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 05:43 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: ALS ice challenge
(19-08-2014 05:21 PM)Anjele Wrote:  How you are able to say people are doing things to avoid donating is beyond me. Do you know this for a fact. Every single person is using the ice bucket thing as a way to keep their money in their pockets.

You have become quite hard to converse with on any level. Never wrong, always expert regardless of the topic. You are unwilling to even consider any view other than your own.

Confidence is a wonderful thing. Smugness, quite another.

I know not to take any rep as you will throw a fit, so I will let it stand. But I am not interested in your high and mighty attitude any more.

Be well - live long and prosper.

Anjele, this is like the 3rd time you've told me I've released my wrath on you. Which is bullshit. I barely talk to you (I don't really care for your childish behavior of PMing people to bitch about other members). The last time you did this, I asked for specifics on what wrath I gave you and you ignored the comment...so I ignored the missive. I have never thrown a fit over reps, go ahead and take them back. I could care less.

I'm not an expert on everything and never said I was. But go fuck yourself if you think I'm gonna let people accuse me of making up facts when I didn't.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. I don't read yours, nor do I comment on them if I don't happen to like them.


I wish you well.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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19-08-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: ALS ice challenge
(19-08-2014 05:30 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I found a legit reason to not do the ice water challenge. It's very dangerous.





lol

Hahhaa! I hasn't seen that! Awesome!

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19-08-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: ALS ice challenge
Looking forward to reviewing these figures in the morning. Good night.

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20-08-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: ALS ice challenge
(17-08-2014 06:53 PM)MrsFarrow Wrote:  We've got a friend on Facebook who posted this, in regards to the challenge. When reading this, keep in mind she continuously posts peta propaganda and those ridiculous breast cancer, what color are your panties whatever bullshit.

OP: Seriously. One more of these bucket challenges, ONE MORE and i am going to flip out. If you really wanted to help a charity, you would donate either time or money. Dumping ice over your head to -avoid- donating just makes you look like a jerk. You are NOT raising awareness, you are giving in to a pointless fad and nothing more.

Followed by an assload of OMG I AGREE OMG OMG LET ME LICK YOUR BUTTHOLE. Finally someone pointed out the statistics and basically called her a grumpy bitch, which lead to a gigantic blow up because IF YOU READ IT ON THE INTERNET IT MUST BE TRUE.

Unless it's a legitimate statistic and fact. And she still keeps posting bullshit about how it's not helping yadda yadda after being confronted numerous times with facts.

People make me want to slam my face into a brick wall.

Okay, can somebody explain to me what exactly this 'bucket challenge' is?

All I've been able to gather from this thread is that you dump water on yourself and donate because you did...?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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20-08-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: ALS ice challenge
Free Thought:

Best I can tell from the coverage, it started as a general call to make donations to any charity, but such overly general calls, while well-intentioned, usually don't go very far. People don't give to "charity." They give to "a charity." Yes, I'm generalizing. But I'm sure you get the idea.

The gimmick is, someone calls on you to make a charitable donation, and if you can't, you pour a bucket of ice over your head while challenging others to make a donation.

There are numerous articles about how this general call became a specific call to benefit ALS "research." I put "research" in quotes because the ALS Association, which appears to be the leading beneficiary of this campaign, didn't come up with it and, in its own materials, refers to it as a campaign to raise "awareness." If you look at many of the videos, you'll see people saying it's for research, it's for awareness, or it's simply "for ALS." They are all correct. There is nothing about the campaign that restricts the raised funds to research, regardless of what anyone (ahem) may claim.

Anyway, so the evolved gimmick is: donate to ALS OR splash ice water over your head while challenging others to do the same (give OR donate).

Seems silly and counterproductive, I know. Why not do both? Well, many people ARE in fact doing both. And while there's plenty of room to quibble about the gimmick, there's something you can't quibble with, and that's results. Since the Ice Bucket Challenge became a thing, More than $31 million has been raised by the ALS Association alone as of Aug. 20, 2014 (this does not include other ALS charities, such as Augie's Quest and more local fundraising efforts). By comparison, the ALS Association took in $1.9 million in donations last year during the same time period.

In reality, here's what's happening: people are giving AND (instead of OR) pouring the ice buckets, and they're encouraging others to join them. And those people are giving and recruiting new donors. The ALS Association alone now has more than 600,000 new donors. This puts the average donation at $50 (not including people who are just playing along and not donating anything).

One can criticize this campaign by choosing to focus on that last group of people: pouring a bucket of ice over your head while NOT giving doesn't help anyone, right? Well, yes and no. If you don't give, but you encourage others TO give, you may not have a direct impact, but you cannot calculate your indirect impact. If I give nothing but I challenge three people who give $5 each, and each of them challenges three people who donate $5 each, and each of them challenges three people who donate $5 each, I have indirectly encouraged the contribution of nearly $200 that would otherwise not have been donated. So you can have a positive impact without giving a dime.

Or, you know, you can sit there and talk about how horrible it is that some people are dousing without donating, ignoring the hundreds of thousands who are.

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20-08-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: ALS ice challenge
So, let's look a little more carefully at the annual report of the ALS Association for the year that ended January 31, 2013.

Page 13 for those reading along.
Total support and revenue (all contributions, bequests, etc): $25,744,512
Amount that went to research grants: $6,616,367 (25.7%)
Patient and community services: $5,046,087 (19.6%)
Public and professional education: $8,878,559 (34.4%)
Fundraising: $3,000,946 (11.6%)
Administrative costs: $2,195,742 (8.5%)

***

Wanna look at the 2012 numbers? LET'S! Page 10 of the 2012 report:

Total support and revenue (all contributions, bequests, etc): $19,042,577
Amount that went to research grants: $3,904,240 (20.5%)
Patient and community services: $4,629,111 (24.3%)
Public and professional education: $1,859,100 (9.7 percent)
Fundraising: $3,269,624 (17.1%)
Administrative costs: $1,773,152 (9.3%)


I have called the ALS Association to find out why they have a separate figure for both years under "combined revenue." I will advise here when I get an answer.

I also apologize for saying the figures cited by Cathy were "made up" and thank her for showing where to find them. Nonetheless, I maintain my position that her presentation of the information is highly misleading.

I do NOT apologize for my criticism of the idea that this campaign is supposed to be primarily focused on research. That is not true, and the Forbes reporter erred in making that claim. It is about research, it is about treatment, it is about advocacy, all of which falls under ALS "awareness," which is mentioned in videos just as frequently, if not more frequently, as the narrow concept of research.

Nonetheless, if YOU want to make sure your contribution to any charitable organization goes to a particular facet of that organization's mission, you are entitled to earmark the donation (simply write in the memo line of your check where you want the funds to go: Research, patient care, advocacy, or for other charities, scholarships, etc). That way the money is spent the way you designate it. Charities are legally obliged to honor donor earmarks.

Charity Navigator gives the ALS Association a rating of four stars (out of four)
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cf..._S0IcVdXTQ

Guidestar gives it a Gold Star
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/1...ation.aspx

I already posted this yesterday, but it bears repeating: The American Institute of Philanthropy gives the ALS Association an overall B+ grade.

So: organizations whose mission is, at least in part, to review the practices of charitable organizations and rate them all give the ALS Association good-to-excellent ratings. But someone takes one section of the annual financial report out of context and uses that limited information to make claims that are contradicted by more detailed information contained in the same report, and rather than look into the matter, concludes that charity watchdogs are wrong, the ALS Association is inept as a charity, your donations aren't really helping, and a fundraising gimmick that has worked tremendously well and hurt no one is somehow more worthy of criticism than applause.

Well, I'll just have to applaud enough to drown out the naysayers.

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20-08-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: ALS ice challenge
Two Cult - Don't get me wrong, donating to charity is an awesome thing to do. I just wish people would do it willingly, freely and often without needing to be compelled by dumping ice on their head.

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20-08-2014, 10:34 AM
RE: ALS ice challenge
The ice is a gimmick that keeps the ball rolling. That's the part that's working: it's easy to give in isolation, but when you do, the giving stops there. When you recruit a donor who then recruits more donors, you have accomplished something that is the envy of every non-profit: growing your donor base.

What remains to be seen is whether the 600,000 or so new donors (claimed by the ALS Association: I have no independent verification of that figure) will repeat their donations in the future. In other words, is this a one-time, profitable gimmick (which we can celebrate as far as it goes), or is it the beginning of a larger sustained donor base for the association or the cause? Too soon to answer that. We'll know next year at this time, I reckon.

I'll let you know when I hear back from the ALS Association on the meaning behind the "combined revenue" figure. Reading financial reports is not my expertise, and I don't want to misrepresent what that figure signifies.

And yes, if it turns out that your review of that one column made more sense than my review of the relevant sections of the same report, I will issue a further apology AND donate $20 to the charity you represent (or the overall cause, depending on the charity). Right to rescind that offer if the charity is something I philosophically oppose. Like Joel Osteen Ministries or something. Wink

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20-08-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: ALS ice challenge
(20-08-2014 10:34 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  The ice is a gimmick that keeps the ball rolling. That's the part that's working: it's easy to give in isolation, but when you do, the giving stops there. When you recruit a donor who then recruits more donors, you have accomplished something that is the envy of every non-profit: growing your donor base.

What remains to be seen is whether the 600,000 or so new donors (claimed by the ALS Association: I have no independent verification of that figure) will repeat their donations in the future. In other words, is this a one-time, profitable gimmick (which we can celebrate as far as it goes), or is it the beginning of a larger sustained donor base for the association or the cause? Too soon to answer that. We'll know next year at this time, I reckon.

I'll let you know when I hear back from the ALS Association on the meaning behind the "combined revenue" figure. Reading financial reports is not my expertise, and I don't want to misrepresent what that figure signifies.

And yes, if it turns out that your review of that one column made more sense than my review of the relevant sections of the same report, I will issue a further apology AND donate $20 to the charity you represent (or the overall cause, depending on the charity). Right to rescind that offer if the charity is something I philosophically oppose. Like Joel Osteen Ministries or something. Wink

Two Cult - I think we were talking past each other a lot. I was not disagreeing that the campaign was a good thing, and that getting people to donate was great. I was just saying that the sheer number of people doing the challenge vs the amount donating signifies that a lot of people think they dump the ice in lieu of donating, despite the ability to donate. I hear what you are saying, in that it doesn't matter because it indirectly gets other people to donate. While thats true, can you imagine how much better designed this challenge could have been if it simply told people that nomination means donation. Even if you can only donate $10.

Its estimated by several unverifiable articles that as many as 9,000,000 (although some articles only have it to around 1,000,000) people have done the challenge. If the donation is up to as much as 22 million, with 600,000 new donors, thats really pathetic, especially when we have A list celebs involved.

Its our personality differences for you to look at it as great no matter what, and my personality as a call for us to do better. Both of us have the same goal. Angel

And I don't need your money for my charity. Give that to your sister as my indirect donation. I need your body. Your literal body. I run a search and rescue K9 organization in upstate new york. We always need new bodies to hide in the woods for us and play victim. Yes Thank you for the apology. Please know that I don't make up numbers, and always fact check to the best of my ability. If I am wrong about the numbers or have misunderstood them, I will freely admit that.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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20-08-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: ALS ice challenge
(19-08-2014 01:33 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I have found this to be the case with Cathy when she is demonstrably wrong she will keep retreating into made up facts and figures and eventually into a "I'm right because Feels" position. It's a shame because she has a lot of good input otherwise.

I don't know Cathy and have nothing bad to say about her. I am trying very hard to direct my comments at the content of her posts and not make it personal. If someone doesn't want to participate in this effort, that's every individual's choice.

But if you're going to be critical of the effort, then the criticism should make sense. It doesn't. Not when you look at the indisputable results.

And if you're going to cite stats about an organization's allocations, get your information from a reputable source. A shirtless guy on Facebook who spouts false numbers that can be easily checked -- not a reputable source. I am SO glad I saw that video before I read Cathy's post, which parrots it (whether she got it from him directly or not, it's false information and needs to be refuted).

There ARE charities that take advantage of donor generosity for the financial gain of the people running the charities. They are called CHURCHES. The ALS Association does not deserve to be tainted with such slander.

For the record, I never saw the video you are referencing.

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