AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
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03-10-2011, 03:35 PM
Shocked AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
I don't know what to believe anymore. The US media says she is innocent.The UK media says she is guilty. So for my sake,I am just neutral.

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03-10-2011, 04:39 PM
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
No way. I hadn't seen this.

Looks like it could be dodgy evidence recovery according to a BBC article I just skimmed through. If so then she's a lucky girl.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-10-2011, 10:50 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2011 01:23 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
(03-10-2011 04:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  No way. I hadn't seen this.

Looks like it could be dodgy evidence recovery according to a BBC article I just skimmed through. If so then she's a lucky girl.

It's not just that, bro, she and Rafael Sollecito are as innocent as the day is long. It was an absolute farce from the very beginning and everyone who has reviewed the evidence knows it.

Thank god (wink) they're free, and thank god that the real killer, Rudy Guede, is behind bars and has been since two weeks after the murder.

Sadly, on appeal, his prison time was reduced from 30 years to 16 years, but I suppose it's better than having him running around killing more people.


(03-10-2011 03:35 PM)tazmin98 Wrote:  I don't know what to believe anymore. The US media says she is innocent.The UK media says she is guilty. So for my sake,I am just neutral.

Let's review the evidence then, shall we?
Note: I have studied this case for years, very in -depth, including watching every released moment of crime scene videos. I will include a tiny bit of my sources at the end, but it is impossible to source everything as all my knowledge has been accumulating since 2008 and I have not saved all sources.

Rudy Guede:
[Image: 1097.jpg]
1. Rudy is a known drug-dealer and criminal who has broken into homes before (through windows) and is known to carry knives.
2. His bodily fluids were inside Meredith's body.
3. His DNA was all over her body, including skin and bodily fluids.
4. Rudy's bloody fingerprints were all over the room.
5. Rudy's bloody handprint was UNDERNEATH Meredith's body
6. His fingerprints (not in blood) were all over the room.
7. His feces was in the toilet.
8. His DNA was also found on numerous clothing items stained with blood, including a handbag.
9. He admit being in the flat during the murder. Previously he had said that a "shadowy figure" killed Meredith and he fled. He later changed that to say it was Rafael Sollecito and Amanda Knox (after he learned of their existence).
10. His alibi is that he met Meredith at a bar, went home with her, and suddenly Rafael and Amanda killed her for no reason.
11. No one saw him speak to Meredith. No one saw him leave with Meredith. No one has ever come forward who ever saw Rudy with Meredith, anywhere. His story is obviously a complete lie to explain his DNA being all over the murder scene.
12. Immediately after the murder, Guede fled the country to Germany, where he was ultimately apprehended, weeks later.
13. Rudy Guede's cellmate testified that Guede confessed to having done the crime by himself and was hoping to get off by blaming Knox and Sollecito after he learned of their existence. Guede denies this, but it's important to note that his cell mate received NO privileges or quid pro quo for this testimony.
14. Guede was charged separately from Amanda Knox and Raffael Sollecito in a "fast track" trial. He is in prison, convicted of the same crime. The corrupt prosecutor Giuliano Miginni said Knox and Sollecito helped this man they had never met before kill their friend, even though there is no provable connection between Guede and Meredith/Knox/Sollecito prior to the night of the murder. The prosecutor and his corruption are described in a later part of the post.

Obviously Guede simply broke into the apartment. Why? Well, he either:
...Broke in to rob the place and was surprised by Meredith who he raped and killed.
OR
...He broke in with the intent to rape and kill Meredith. This is less likely as his MO is robbery, and it's unlikely he took the time to ransack the house and poop after committing a murder/rape.

So what connection is there between Rudy Guede and Amanda Knox/Rafael Sollecito? None. There is no connection. There never has been, and the prosecution has never put one forward except a baseless claim that he was Amanda's drug dealer. No witnesses nor physical evidence ever puts him together with Rafael/Amanda/Meredith prior to the killing. None. Ever.

Amanda Knox/Raffael Sollecito:
[Image: Amanda-Knox-and-Raffaele--001.jpg]
1. These two had been somewhat-dating for 6 days when the killing happened.
2. Amanda Knox had been in Italy for 2 months and only spoke the most basic Italian. She is fluent now, but has been studying for the past 4 years.
3. Early in the investigation the police focused fiercely on these two suspects because the prosecutor had a "gut feeling" they were guilty, based on no evidence.
4. The Italians found a text message on Knox's phone that said "SEE YOU LATER!" that was sent to her boss. This is (obviously) a way of saying "goodbye" in Amercia. The Italians, because they're incompetent, decided it meant that Amanda and her boss Lumbaba were going to "see each other later" to murder Meredith. This is an absurd theory, based on a single text message, but it is what they ran with.
5. They then interrogated Knox for over 14 hours straight. She had no lawyer and no translator, and did not speak fluent Italian. It is important to note the proceedings were NOT recorded at all. During this time, the police used coercive tactics by telling Knox that they knew Lumbaba had been there and they wanted her to, I quote "Imagine what the scene was like that night". In this "imagining" she said, as they had already told her they 'knew', Lumbaba was there. Based on this, they arrested her boss.
6. They arrested Sollecito based on essentially no evidence whatsoever. Mostly it was that there was no computer activity on his computer when he said he was on it, though this is questionable. He and Knox maintain they were together at his apartment, watching a movie, and then having sex on the night of the killing. As they were likely also smoking pot, his changing alibi could have been trying to cover up the drug use. It's also possible that intense police interrogation caused his story to repeatedly change, as did Knox's.
7. Lumbaba had an airtight alibi, but was held until 2 weeks after Rudy Guede was arrested.

THE WITNESS
1. A single witness said he saw Amanda and Raffael leaving the flat the night of the murder.
2. This witness is a homeless heroin addict.
3. He has testified THREE TIMES in MURDER TRIALS for the SAME PROSECUTOR before.
4. Amazing how the same homeless heroin addict keeps showing up at this prosecutor's trials, isn't it?
5. His testimony, during the appeals, was destroyed on the stand. He misremembered details, got many things wrong, was contradictory, and ultimately found to be completely non credible.
6. Most importantly, he insisted he knew the day he saw Amanda and Raffael leave because it was the day the buses weren't running, due to a Halloween celebration. He also said, in his initial interviews, that he saw witches and ghosts around the night he saw Amanda and Raffael. With all this taken together, he's obviously speaking of Halloween.
Here's the problem: That happened the day BEFORE the murder. Meredith was killed on November 1st. Halloween is, obviously, the previous night. He was caught like this on the stand and at this point his entire testimony collapsed into nothing.



MOTIVE:
For Rudy Guede it's simple: Meredith surprised him during a burglary and he killed her.
For Knox and Sollecito? It has changed repeatedly since day 1, because the prosecution has a near-impossible task of explaining why two people who had dated for a week managed to rape and kill their friend all while....leaving no physical traces of themselves and only those of a completely unrelated 3rd party with a criminal record. Sometimes the prosecution argues it was a "satanic sex orgy caused by pot", other times that Knox was mad at Meredith about a vibrator. Seriously. Later, when trying to explain Guede's presence, they said that he was Amanda's drug dealer. There is no proof of this, whatsoever. Ultimately they admitted they have no motive at all, and that is now the prosecution's OFFICIAL position: There is no motive for Amanda or Raffael to have killed Meredith

TIMELINE
It is VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind that everything with Knox and Sollecito and Lumbaba happened in the FIRST FOUR DAYS of the investigation. Why is this important? Because Guede's DNA and handprints were not identified until two weeks later, after which the prosecutor had made an international media circus of their guilt. He was then faced with admitting he was a buffoon to international television or charging all three suspects. Obviously the prosecutor chose the latter.


THE KNIFE

The knife that has been made so much of is not the murder weapon. Why do I say this?
1. This knife belonged to Meredith and Amanda. They owned it and used it. It was recovered from the kitchen sink.
2. The prosecution has admitted the knife was incapable of making any more than ONE of the wounds on Meredith's body, of which there are over 40. The only wound the knife was capable of making is one stab wound on Meredith's neck. Why? The blade is too wide, and given the depth of the stab-wounds, the wounds would be over a 1/2 inch larger if this knife was used. It is definitively not possible for it to have caused more than one wound.
3. The "DNA" found on the handle was not blood. It was likely skin, from Amanda. As she owned the knife, it's not surprising her DNA was on it.
4. The DNA on the blade, which is allegedly Meredith's, is not from blood.
5. There is no blood on the handle.
6. There's no explanation for why the killers would use multiple weapons to kill Meredith and then decide to leave one of them in the sink while disposing of another. It's an absurd theory.

THE DNA

1. The DNA taken in the original parts of the investigation, the day of the body's discovery, were properly sampled. Video tapes of this process exist, from gathering to testing. You can view them. Proper procedure is used.
2. These initials samples are not disputed by anyone, not even Guede's attorneys, and all of them returned as Guede's DNA.
3. However, that was the problem. The prosecutor had charged Amanda and Sollecito but had ZERO DNA to back it up. Zero. So the investigators returned and gathered more evidence to try and find DNA to implicated Amanda and Rafael.
4. It is VERY IMPORTANT to realize that the later gathering of evidence did not occur until 47 DAYS AFTER THE MURDER. This is further discussed below under "Bad Police Work" in which a former FBI agent savages the investigation from this point forward.
5. In the initial police video, from November 2nd, you can see the famous bra-clasp lying on the floor of the room.
6. By December, when the bra clasp was finally picked up for evidence (six weeks later) the police had stomped on it, kicked it around, and didn't even seal the container they put it in while collecting it. This is all on videotape.
7. DNA on the bra clasp came from Rafael Sollecito AND two other unidentified males.

CONTAMINATION
1. The DNA samples used on the Knife and Bra clasp are exceptionally important.
2. When taking a DNA sample, the size of the sample is exceptionally important because contamination is common. The FBI uses a minimum sample size of 200. Different labs have different standards, but anything below 100 is HIGHLY suspect of contamination. This is because we carry DNA from everywhere we go, and every person we touch, on numerous items and clothing. You could, right now, have DNA from your friend's, mothers's, boss's daughter on your clothing. However, the size of such a sample would be small, below 50.
3. The sample size of Sollecito on the bra clasp was 15. This is over 1/10th the necessary size for a bare-minimum sample. This is obviously cross-contamination.
4. The investigators had Sollectio and Knox (as seen on the crime scene video tapes) stomping around in the crime scene immediately after the murder. Again, contamination is not only possible, it's almost assured.

BAD POLICE WORK

As the HIGHLY decorated FBI agent Steve Moore (a 25 year veteran of the FBI who is 53 years old and retired) points out, the recovery of evidence in the days after the initial evidence gathering was awful.
SOURCE
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/july2...ics-sw.php
1. Poor evidence collection procedures: dirty gloves, not changing footwear between rooms, loose hair, not using tweezers consistently, failure to process crime scene effectively and efficiently. Not only was the bra clasp not collected until 47 days later, it was then passed between agents with dirty gloves and placed back on the floor to be photographed
2. Failure to collect half of the victim’s clothes that were physically removed from her body. It wasn’t only the bra clasp that was collected 47 days later. Meredith Kercher’s blue Adidas jacket with sleeves turned inside out from being pulled off of her, her socks with blood on the cuffs from being removed by her killer, bra clasp which had been photographed early on, shoes, tote bag the killer may have looked through and a brown leather purse with blood near the zipper had also not been collected. All of these items were left behind for 6 weeks uncollected until the Forensic Police went back to the cottage on Dec 18, 2007. Rudy Guede's DNA was later found on the purse and jacket.
3. Hazmat outfits. The Forensic Police were wearing the wrong gear. In Hazmat outfits the footwear cannot be changed between rooms as required.
4. Patrizia Stefanoni obfuscated the truth when she said she didn’t do a blood test on luminol footprints. She actually had performed a TMB test that got negative results. The FBI uses TMB and a negative result excludes the presence of blood.
5. Officer Gioia Brocci used collection swabs in the bathroom with wide wipes that would mix any DNA. She also incorrectly used both sides of the collection swabs.
6. Failure to test a potential semen stain found on the pillow underneath the victim’s hips.

Steve Moore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQrIqmoUcQ
Steve Moore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-1SNQPWX9Q

THE BREAKIN

It's important to note Meredith's room was broken into through the window and the room locked from the INSIDE (further putting into question the knife that was found int he kitchen sink)

The prosecution said the break-in was staged in the initial days of the investigation, before they knew about Rudy Guede.
They had to say this because it wouldn't make any damn sense for Rafael and Amanda to break into a place that Amanda lived in.
They based the "staged" theory SOLELY on the fact that glass was found on top of, not beneath, clothes on the floor. They argued that the clothes must have been put there during the ransacking.

But as I look at my floor in my bedroom right now, there's clothes piled right under the window. Meredith was a college student, as am I, and I'm far older than her. how many kids put clothes on their floor? LOTS!

So if the clothes were left on the floor when the apartment was broken into, there'd be glass on them. Obviously

Rudy Guede is known to break into buildings before, by the window.


THE PROSECUTOR (GIULIANO MIGINNI)
AND
AUTHOR DOUGLAS PRESTON

[Image: sdsdsds_1564614c.jpg]
Why do I place so much emphasis on Giuliano Mignini? Because he is the reason we're all here.
This man is the prosecutor in the case, who has already been found guilty of abusing his office.

In the 4 days after Meredith's murder, this man focused entirely on Knox and Sollecito. He is the source of the "satanic sex orgy pot fueled frenzy" theory that sounds about as retarded as it really is.
His theory sounded ludicrous, and proved to be ludicrous when all evidence pointed to Rudy Guede.
Sow why does he continue to insist Amanda and Raffael were the killers when all other evidence showed otherwise? The man has a terrible record, and has used the "satanic cult" theory in a half-dozen different cases. (Obviously he's never managed to find a satanic cult, but he sure keeps trying).
He is a discredited buffoon with a bad track record. When he went before international media and adamantly insisted that Knox and Sollecito were the killers, and having charged them with the crime, he was unwilling to admit his incompetence and further tarnish his already-piss-poor record.
This is why he continued with the charges.



How does Douglas Preston fit into this?
In 2008, Douglas Preston moved to Italy and began to write a book about a serial killer from 40 years ago. The serial killer is known as "The Monster of FLorence", the same as Preston's book title
For some reason, the Prosecutor got it in his head that because he was writing a book about the killings, Preston WAS the Monster of Florence.
The proescutor actually had Preston arrested and used many of the same interrogation tactics on him that were used on Amanda Knox. Unlike Knox, however, Preston was not a 20 year old girl and knew his rights and refused to say anything or sign papers that he could not understand.
So why is this all so insane and ludicrous?

Here's the thing: The Monster of Florence's first killing was in 1968. Douglas Preston was born in 1956.

That's right. This prosecutor was charging a man of flying to Italy and killing people and then flying back to the United States....when he was TWELVE FUCKING YEARS OLD. TWELVE!!!!!!!!

And What was the prosecutor's original theory of the serial killings before he came up with "12 year old Douglas Preston" theory? A "satanic cult" did it.

SOUND FAMILIAR?


To summarize:
All the physical evidence from the initial investigation points to Guede. All of it. A known criminal. Nothing points to Knox or Sollecito, absolutely nothing.
FBI agents have torn the later investigation to pieces.
The knife was not the murder weapon, the prosecution admits this.
There was no motive for Amanda or Rafael, the prosecution admits this.
The prosecutor from the initial trial has a history of corruption, has been convicted of abusing his office, has a history of wild/outlandish theories about crimes, and has falsely accused many people in the past, including famous author Douglas Preston who the prosecutor accused of being the serial killer The Monster of Florence ( who was killing when Douglas Preston was 12 years old and not living in Italy ). The prosecutor had already made an international media circus with his "satanic sex orgy" theory int he first days of the investigation, and simply charged Knox and Sollecito to not admit his incompetence in international media after all the evidence pointed to Rudy Guede alone.
RUDY GUEDE: GUILTY, ALREADY SERVING HIS SENTENCE
AMANDA KNOX AND RAFFAEL SOLLECITO: INNOCENT, EXONERATED


SOURCES (these are not even remotely all of my sources, these are merely a sliver of those that I have used in the past few weeks/months. I have read about this case extensively for years):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/15...09517.html
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweek...itness.php
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-2...04083.html
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/amanda-k...s-14654508
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI6.html
http://smithforensic.blogspot.com/2011/0...steve.html
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI.html
Douglas Preston on CNN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WebQA41RA48
An Innocent Abroad, from New York Times: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/200...nt-abroad/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Pre..._Knox_case
Douglas Preston on The Monster of Florence http://www.nuok.it/2010/05/tales-from-it...s-preston/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct...sfeed=true
http://www.monsterofflorence.co.uk/?p=1
http://abcnews.go.com/International/crit...d=14623904
http://news.yahoo.com/giuliano-mignini-t...00917.html

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04-10-2011, 12:44 AM
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
Good for her. Good for both of them. I didn't have your encyclopedic knowledge of the case there Knight but anytime I hear a prosecutor invoke the Satanic Pot Fueled Orgy prosecution, I become immediately suspicious. The only thing pot has ever fueled is a case of the munchies and an abnormal attraction to crashing out on a ratty couch.

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04-10-2011, 12:46 AM
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
Woau, now this is called good journalism. Good work knight, I didn't have a clue about the case, now I know more than the prosecutor... Good thing they set the girl free.

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04-10-2011, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2011 01:23 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
(04-10-2011 12:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  Woau, now this is called good journalism. Good work knight, I didn't have a clue about the case, now I know more than the prosecutor... Good thing they set the girl free.

Happy to help, but if you want to review anything I've written feel free! I am well versed on this topic, but I am not all-knowing ;-)

I want to stress that I DO NOT believe the police were involved in any conspiracy or anything like that. They were in over their head as crimes like this are so rare in Peruglia. They might see one crime like this in a generation. It was inexperience that led to bad police work. Sometimes I come across as a bit too harsh on the police, but that is my emotions talking. They did everything they could to try and capture the killer, and ultimately they did (after all, Rudy Guede IS in prison). In fact, if it wasn't for their tenacious police work, Rudy Guede would have escaped justice altogether. I commend them for sticking to the case, regardless of any problems their investigation may have had.

While many have been angry at the Italian Justice System, I do not direct my ire towards their justice system either. Whether or not it has problems is completely beyond the point, and I think their system has managed to finally find the truth, so I am not questioning that either.

I DO, however, place a lot of the blame on the Prosecutor, Giuliani Miginni, and with good cause. If there is any bad guy in this (besides Rudy Guede, obviously) it is Giuliani. He put his personal political career ahead of finding Meredith's killer. He put his personal political career and image ahead of releasing obviously-innocent suspects. He is a bad person, and I have a lot of contempt for him. His behavior (which I believe is criminal) led to this entire fiasco and could have resulted in two innocent people spending their lives in prison.

It is very fortunate Guede had a prior criminal record because it made it easy for the Italian police to hunt him down. Meredith has had her justice, and now so have Amanda and Raffael.
(04-10-2011 12:44 AM)coyoteran Wrote:  Good for her. Good for both of them. I didn't have your encyclopedic knowledge of the case there Knight but anytime I hear a prosecutor invoke the Satanic Pot Fueled Orgy prosecution, I become immediately suspicious. The only thing pot has ever fueled is a case of the munchies and an abnormal attraction to crashing out on a ratty couch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

It's amazing people used to buy into this nonsense isn't it?

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04-10-2011, 04:31 AM
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
Why do you think that prosecutor is like that? Maybe because he is Italian and they have Berlusconi for president, which clearly is not a very law abiding citizen. So if your president is mafia and an idiot, what do you expect from his minions, but to be retarded and "family related" as well? Italy, a very nice country, destroyed by the assholes who are running it, from top to bottom.

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04-10-2011, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2011 10:10 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
(04-10-2011 04:31 AM)Filox Wrote:  Why do you think that prosecutor is like that? Maybe because he is Italian and they have Berlusconi for president, which clearly is not a very law abiding citizen. So if your president is mafia and an idiot, what do you expect from his minions, but to be retarded and "family related" as well? Italy, a very nice country, destroyed by the assholes who are running it, from top to bottom.

I won't get into Italian politics because I don't want to bias my earlier post Wink
I honestly don't know why he acts the way he does, though, but he is definitely not someone who cares about truth, law, justice, right/wrong. He cares only about his own political standing and his own power. He's an awful awful human being.
And as I pointed out, I'm not just saying this because of this one case, he has a history of this kind of behavior.

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05-10-2011, 12:31 AM
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
Damn, Knight, why are you in the sub program? You should go into law!

I'm totally serious there, good investigative journalism, I rarely see it these days, plus 1 rep for you!!!

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05-10-2011, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2011 01:17 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: AMANDA KNOX IS OUT!!!!
(05-10-2011 12:31 AM)monkeyshine89 Wrote:  Damn, Knight, why are you in the sub program? You should go into law!

I'm totally serious there, good investigative journalism, I rarely see it these days, plus 1 rep for you!!!

Actually, I'm out now, I did my time. I'm going to college with a history/english degree and strongly considering law since my father was a lawyer Smile

Either that or law enforcement (at a federal level: FBI, NCIS, US Marshals, etc.)

ALSO, ADDENDUMS TO MY LONG ABOVE POST:

(I will make any corrections to when I catch myself being wrong, because I wrote the above post rather hastily and left some parts out, like the Luminol tests, which I may go into if anyone really cares, although Steve Moore goes over it in his interviews and talks about how the footprints they claimed were Amanda's in blood actually tested negative for blood)
This is partially a correction, as there was a tangential connection between Guede and Knox/Meredeth: Rudy Guede knew the people who lived downstairs from Amanda and Meredith. He had inquired as to whether Amanda was single before (from the people he knew downstairs) and had slept in the downstairs apartment before. The lower flatmates apparently introduced them once as "This is Rudy, This is Amanda" and that was their sole contact, weeks prior to the case. I mentioned how poorly Knox spoke Italian (two months of learning) and it's worth emphasizing Guede spoke English equally poorly. They were not capable of communicating with each other.

This all demonstrates why he targeted their apartment in the first place, and why the killer seemed to show remorse by covering up Kercher's body before fleeing.

Guede and Sollecito had never seen each other in person until after the case was at trial.

Don't confuse this with Guede and Knox/Kercher having any real relationship. They knew him as well as you know a neighbor you said hi to once, 6 weeks ago, and never encountered otherwise.

SOURCE:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/0...not-there/

This is a great little spot I just found where you can read up a lot more on Guede, and goes more in depth on why he would have been desperate enough to rob Meredeth in the first place, as well as his radically changing stories that slowly begin to point more and more at Sollecito and Knox as he learns of their involvement, as I mentioned in my original post.

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