ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
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19-05-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(19-05-2016 07:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  We both know that claims are not evidence. So, how can I KNOW that your claims are true? Is there any way?

But wait a minute. I see a doble standard here. You are demanding me evidence about the Chuck Norris facts in one hand but in another hand you believe all the Mormonism claims without hesitation and with ZERO evidence.Consider I find your lack of faith about Chuck Norris disturbing.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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19-05-2016, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2016 07:44 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(19-05-2016 07:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  We both know that claims are not evidence. So, how can I KNOW that your claims are true? Is there any way?

Yes. Ted Nugent can back him up.




#sigh
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19-05-2016, 07:51 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(19-05-2016 07:27 PM)Leo Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 07:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  We both know that claims are not evidence. So, how can I KNOW that your claims are true? Is there any way?

But wait a minute. I see a doble standard here. You are demanding me evidence about the Chuck Norris facts in one hand but in another hand you believe all the Mormonism claims without hesitation and with ZERO evidence.Consider I find your lack of faith about Chuck Norris disturbing.

I don't demand any evidence. I only ask if there is any way to know. May be there is some kind of Norris Ghost? May be he has some kind of convincing power?
so, no double standards, my friend Smile

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19-05-2016, 07:55 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(19-05-2016 07:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 07:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  We both know that claims are not evidence. So, how can I KNOW that your claims are true? Is there any way?

Yes. Ted Nugent can back him up.



You may not expect this from Mormon, but great music. I really enjoyed. Unfortunately, I understood only a few words. Smile

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20-05-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
I'm not a theist anymore, but I can use my time machine to ask myself from ten years ago, or so:

(17-05-2016 07:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What's your denomination?

Lutheran (Missouri Synod)


(17-05-2016 07:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Do you believe in election or free will?

Free will


(17-05-2016 07:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What is your eschatological view?

It's one of those things I deliberately avoided thinking about. I knew there was no consensus (so there was no "right" authoritative answer) and thinking about it made me uncomfortable.


(17-05-2016 07:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What is your view on origins (ie - YEC, OEC, TE, EC, etc)?

Probably theistic evolution. I accepted evolution, but I basically saw the universe as one giant Rube Goldberg kicked off by God for whatever reasons and mysterious ways he had. I had a bit of a day-age interpretation of the first creation story in Genesis, although I'd never figured out an answer as to why the days were out of order.


Hmmm, I probably should have used my time machine for financial gain, instead. I hope you appreciate what I went through. It was one-time use, so I can't show it to anybody.
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21-05-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
1) Catholic

2) in common terms I believe in free will. In philosophical terms I do not believe in free will but free choice.

3) the world will end, judgement, yadda yadda. There will be a new earth and we will be given new perfect bodies.

4) I believe God is the necessary cause. I have been toying with the idea that the universe is eternal but that is just because I think I can hold that position. In reality, big bang is as much as I, who does not have sufficient scientific background to say otherwise, can claim to be the beginning of the universe.
In terms of Man. I believe the soul of Man to be immediately created by God. I follow Chesterton in that we see no evolution in the consciousness of Man. Our first evidence of Man is as man. However the body of Man could very well have evolved from more "primitive" beings.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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21-05-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(21-05-2016 01:25 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  In terms of Man. I believe the soul of Man to be immediately created by God. I follow Chesterton in that we see no evolution in the consciousness of Man. Our first evidence of Man is as man. However the body of Man could very well have evolved from more "primitive" beings.

If you see no evolution of consciousness, you are simply not looking.

Try this: The evolution of consciousness

or blow your mind on this: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-05-2016, 07:40 PM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(21-05-2016 06:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 01:25 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  In terms of Man. I believe the soul of Man to be immediately created by God. I follow Chesterton in that we see no evolution in the consciousness of Man. Our first evidence of Man is as man. However the body of Man could very well have evolved from more "primitive" beings.

If you see no evolution of consciousness, you are simply not looking.

Try this: The evolution of consciousness

or blow your mind on this: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes

Love Jaynes' book! I have it around here somewhere, and should read it again. He provides a cogent case.
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22-05-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
(21-05-2016 06:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2016 01:25 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  In terms of Man. I believe the soul of Man to be immediately created by God. I follow Chesterton in that we see no evolution in the consciousness of Man. Our first evidence of Man is as man. However the body of Man could very well have evolved from more "primitive" beings.

If you see no evolution of consciousness, you are simply not looking.

Try this: The evolution of consciousness

or blow your mind on this: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes

You are amazing. Why? You told me to read something and you provided a source on where to find it.
Now I will definitely read, or at least attempt to read, what you have given me.
I will say that I am going into it with some caution. From what I have cursorly read on Wikipedia it says that this essay has no basis in neuroscience and that Dawkins, with some reservation, says that it is mostly bunk.
But I will still read it even though I doubt it will change my mind.
Part of the problem is that I have little academic knowledge of neuroscience and thus I cannot necessarily verify the authors claims. I will ask my science/theology professor for his opinion since he has his master's in neuroscience.
In any case what I was talking about was more along the time scale of 200,000 years not 3,000.
In fairness I will recommend you read the first 3 or 4 chapters of Chesterton's "Evelasting Man" which is on Gutenburg. I'm using my cellphone making copy and pasting a link difficult.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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22-05-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: ATTN: Theists - Four Questions
That reminds me of an old story about Moises in a Russian Jewish village. Moises hadn't stopped by the synagogue for several weeks. SO after Sabbath services the rabbi stopped by to talk to the old boy. Is there a problem? He asked Moises? We haven't seen you on Sabbath morn in for a while."
"No no problem" Moises said.
"Someone said you are turning to atheism."
"No not me." he denied.
Later Moises told a neghbor Benjamin that he had given up on the idea of God.
SO the rabbi stopped by on a Tuesday afternoon to confront him again.
"Yes i have decided that I cannot believe anymore" Moises admitted to the rabbi.
"Well when I asked you a couple of weeks ago you denied it, right? WHy?"
I sure wan't going to make any such declaration on the Sabbath, now was I?" Moisessaid.
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