Ability for Self Reflection
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06-12-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
(06-12-2013 02:34 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 02:11 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Just curious about something. Did you, or do you, assuming you read it, have or had, the same objection to the chapter in Seth's book where he addresses these categories as they used to describe christians?* Or are you not liking the categories because I turned them around on Atheists?


*I purposely added more conditionals to a sentence to illustrate my point that we make assumptions all the time or the conversation gets very difficult. I could have simply asked you, "did you have those same objections when seth categorized christians?" and assumed that you read the book, and specifically, assumed you read that particular chapter.

No, i have not read Seth's book, but i would probably have similar objections. I try to recognize and avoid hypocrisy...hopefully with decent success.


says the hypocrite. Tongue

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-12-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
In what way am I being hypocritical? I never said anything about Seth's book. Or are you making a joke?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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06-12-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
(06-12-2013 02:52 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  In what way am I being hypocritical? I never said anything about Seth's book. Or are you making a joke?

Making a joke. There really needs to be sarcasm font.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-12-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
Haha, there really does, I agree. Thumbsup (this isn't sarcasm, for the record)

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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06-12-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
(06-12-2013 03:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 02:52 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  In what way am I being hypocritical? I never said anything about Seth's book. Or are you making a joke?

Making a joke. There really needs to be sarcasm font.

I should set my computer as that being the default font setting; only switching to something else when being earnest apples.
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06-12-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
I would add the group 'naturalist'- I grew up atheist so we never talked about religion or even a lack there of in my house. I don't think about the bible & Jesus just like I don't think about the koran or allah or any other so called holy book. I don't know it well enough to quote it, and would hardly recognize any of the stories in it except for the most talked about ones (noah, adam & eve).

I look at what I know about the earth, the planets, plants & animals, evolution, fossils etc. to decide that gods are all hogwash.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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06-12-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
(06-12-2013 08:03 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I would add the group 'naturalist'- I grew up atheist so we never talked about religion or even a lack there of in my house. I don't think about the bible & Jesus just like I don't think about the koran or allah or any other so called holy book. I don't know it well enough to quote it, and would hardly recognize any of the stories in it except for the most talked about ones (noah, adam & eve).

I look at what I know about the earth, the planets, plants & animals, evolution, fossils etc. to decide that gods are all hogwash.

There are lots of other categories I could of come up with. I purposely limited those selections to those categories that Seth used in his book to describe christians. To point the mirror of hypocrisy back at ourselves.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-12-2013, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 08:47 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
The Cut Them Off at the Ankles Atheist:

This devout Christian who knows that any promise of a postmortem preservation of identity is utterly and completely untenable bullshit nonsense and realizes I am my own personal Lord and Savior doesn't temporarily embody The Word for some eternal reward, I do it because I have to. It's in my nature.




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-12-2013, 06:06 AM
RE: Ability for Self Reflection
(06-12-2013 10:36 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I wrote this email to Seth:

Hi Seth,

When I listened to your book, Deconverted, you described 4 types of God-Glass wearing Christians, The feeler, the foot soldier, etc.

I was wondering if perhaps we - as atheists - should do a podcast centering on self reflection. Something we accuse Christians of being unable to reasonably do. And since we can't stand hypocrisy….

In the chatrooms, on the news, and in interactions on a person to person level, I have also noticed that Atheists can also fit into 4 groups. So that I avoid hypocrisy, I will break them down using your 4 categories and applying the concepts and even the same quotes you used in your book.
The Feeler - Just as a christian knows it in their heart that a god exists that loves them, and cares for them, the Atheist Feeler just knows that no god could possibly be good, or care for them if hell (and therefore god) exists. They rationalize - instead of the love of god - but the wrath of a petty, jealous and narcissistic god. They do not spend a lot of time arguing god's existence, rather, focuses more on god's darker side. They argue that it doesn't matter if god exists, they wouldn't worship him anyway. They appeal to logic, common sense, and emotions when applying the crimes of god to that of man. God is unjust, they say, and give examples of the punishment to Lot's wife for her crime vs Lot getting a pass for his daughters. They appeal to the emotions of parents, often asking them what their own child would have to do in order for them to punish their child with never-ending unimaginable pain of 4th degree burns. They try to appeal to the believer on a humanitarian level. They are the counterpart of The [Christian] Feeler.

The Theologian - "This [Atheist] is adept at redirection." He knows as much of the bible as the best biblical scholar and can quote scripture verbatim - from memory- the contradictory passages that do not portray god as a loving being. They attack the scriptural inconsistencies, historical error, and appeal to the cultural influence (zeitgeist) of the times. When speaking to a creationist, they boldly protest that the earth is older than 6,000 years old and point to evidence of evolution and common genetics with other plants and animals. "Thick, superior and condescending. The theologian utter lofty words from a high perch, unimpressed by counter opinions of lesser minds."

The Folklorist - "His antenna is always up. Listening for another piece of proof that god [doesn't] exist [and that we made him up] and then retransmitting that information without bothering to fact-check it." He would read that a book titled Who Invented Jesus was published and then send the link to the book without bothering to even read the book himself. (You even mentioned this on your podcast for this book). The folklorist - in response to Jesus - points to all the other gods that have the same/similar stories. Virgin Birth, Noah's Flood, etc. The folklorist looks for tragic events in which christians thank god for a sole survivor and points to the fact all other 50 people perished as the evidence that god doesn't exist. Ironically, these are typically also people that, although they do not hold a belief in god, do believe that if they wear a particular t-shirt, or sit in a particular seat, their sports team will win the game.

The Foot Soldier - usually an extremely aggressive, hotheaded and strong personality. A fanatic, an extremist and an alarmist, the foot soldier seeks to skewer and vilify all believers in god and god himself. He "flips the conversation 180 degrees….he champions [atheism] from the front lines, instead of the war room." He is dramatic; is quick to exaggerate; applies blanket generalizations to the religious; resorts to personal attacks (e.g., "who are YOU to [claim to know god exists]…"); is somewhat fanatical and "whose tactic is just to use force to keep the [believer] on the defensive." He is the quintessential "Angry Atheist", the charging bull into the china shop if you will. "From his prospective, anyone that dared to [assert god was real] and put [atheism] to the fire, MUST BE delusional, mislead, or sought to be god himself. The foot soldier loved a good fight…"

He uses expressions like "religotard", and insists anyone who isn't on his page is moronic, stupid, or blind to the truth. He files lawsuits against towns for nativity scenes, refuses to stand for the pledge, not because he is unpatriotic but because the word god is in the pledge. He gets his nose bent out of shape when someone wishes him a merry christmas and forcefully elbows his way into conversations with "righteous indignation."
He is the Westboro Baptist of Atheism and is - quite simply - the other side of the fanatical coin.

I wanted to apply our same criticisms of the religious into a mirror, so that we can see ourselves in its reflection. I listen to people like the Foot Soldier and think to myself, "You make me hesitant to say I'm an atheist", which, ironically, I've heard the exact same thing that liberal christians say about fundamentalist christian sects. So perhaps if we can see that we aren't all that different from the religious, we can start to treat each other with a little more compassion. Which, I believe, is what liberal christians feel was jesus's message.

I am a liberal atheist. My goal is not to spread atheism's good news…but rather to show to the world that you can live a good, moral, peaceful, humble, and compassionate life without a belief in god.


~TTA User Cathym112

... Where would I be on those re-definitions...?

.. Screw self-reflection! It's too hard!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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