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23-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Abortion
Last night I wrote a blog article on Congressman Akin and the Republican platform position on abortion.

Got me thinking that I needed to (wanted to) articulate my personal views on abortion, but I thought I'd pre-position here for thoughts/feedback before going final. I realize the issue is fraught with you name it -- not necessarily looking for endorsement or agreement, but with the logical presentation...

Thanks - Sean

Begin article:

What a topic! It is one of those impossible issues to find middle ground on and I expect it will soon rip this country apart.

My last blog article focused primarily on the politics of abortion and the positions of the political parties, but I held off from disclosing my own views on the issue.

The question that permeates the “debate” (a loosely used word since debate on this subject is rare) is this: Is abortion murder?

The Republican Party, based on their party platform, has answered this question with a resounding yes.

But politics aside, the question is more problematic for most people. A full 20% of the country, agrees with the Republican platform – abortion is “wrong” in all cases, regardless of the cause of conception. I use “wrong” in quotations, since it implies a moral concept that also needs addressing.

Most Americans view late term, or third-term abortions, as “wrong.” This was codified in the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 and upheld by the Supreme Court in 2007. The Act stated:

“A moral, medical, and ethical consensus exists that the practice of performing a partial-birth abortion... is a gruesome and inhumane procedure that is never medically necessary and should be prohibited.”

Christian advocates for ending the practice of abortion have long been informed and/or guided by their religious beliefs that a fetus, from the moment of conception, is a human being and therefore has a soul. Ending the viability of the life, at any stage, is therefore the equivalent of murder.

This view actually makes sense, in the sense that the argument is reasoned – albeit, in my opinion misinformed by the “fact” that a “soul” exists in the first place.
If the argument is recast, without the socio-religious presumption that a fetus has a soul, and is therefore not a human being (with the rights and privileges thereby associated) until birth, then when during the process of gestation is abortion not wrong?

Now the issue opens serious debate and interpretation, hinging on growth and stage development. Questions must be asked:

At what point can the fetus survive outside the womb? Generally speaking, there is a 50% survival rate for prematurely born babies at about the 24th week of gestation – is that the cutoff?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co..._table.svg

Do we need to look earlier in the gestation period? Prior to the transition from a zygote (embryogenesis) and fetal development which normally occurs between the 8th and 10th week?

Absent the soul argument (moment of conception), there are myriad choices to make along gestational development to determine the moral choice of ending a potential human life.

My personal view, which is informed by Humanist understanding and respect for life, along with scientific evidence, is that termination of a pregnancy after the fetal transition is where I draw the line.

Why?

There are two primary reasons why this makes sense to me.

First, medical studies show that nearly one quarter of pregnancies are self-terminated by the 6th week of pregnancy. The human body, for whatever reason, rejects the embryo during this development phase. Most times, this self-abortion is never recognized – chalked up to a heavier period flow which would be attributed to delayed menstruation. If a woman’s body conducts this self-abortion naturally, medical assistance during the same time frame cannot be viewed as immoral.

Second, the transitional phase from zygote to fetus is marked by a singular important development – that of the spinal cord and the central nervous system. Prior to this development, the embryo has no feelings – it is simply a developing clump of cellular formation; however, once the fetus can actually feel pain, the morality of external termination is certainly questionable.

Unfortunately, for those that support a woman’s right to choose, there is no clear cut, definitive answer that approaches the clarity of the position held by the pro-life camp.

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23-08-2012, 10:09 AM
RE: Abortion
(23-08-2012 10:06 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  Last night I wrote a blog article on Congressman Akin and the Republican platform position on abortion.

Got me thinking that I needed to (wanted to) articulate my personal views on abortion, but I thought I'd pre-position here for thoughts/feedback before going final. I realize the issue is fraught with you name it -- not necessarily looking for endorsement or agreement, but with the logical presentation...

Thanks - Sean

Begin article:

What a topic! It is one of those impossible issues to find middle ground on and I expect it will soon rip this country apart.

My last blog article focused primarily on the politics of abortion and the positions of the political parties, but I held off from disclosing my own views on the issue.

The question that permeates the “debate” (a loosely used word since debate on this subject is rare) is this: Is abortion murder?

The Republican Party, based on their party platform, has answered this question with a resounding yes.

But politics aside, the question is more problematic for most people. A full 20% of the country, agrees with the Republican platform – abortion is “wrong” in all cases, regardless of the cause of conception. I use “wrong” in quotations, since it implies a moral concept that also needs addressing.

Most Americans view late term, or third-term abortions, as “wrong.” This was codified in the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 and upheld by the Supreme Court in 2007. The Act stated:

“A moral, medical, and ethical consensus exists that the practice of performing a partial-birth abortion... is a gruesome and inhumane procedure that is never medically necessary and should be prohibited.”

Christian advocates for ending the practice of abortion have long been informed and/or guided by their religious beliefs that a fetus, from the moment of conception, is a human being and therefore has a soul. Ending the viability of the life, at any stage, is therefore the equivalent of murder.

This view actually makes sense, in the sense that the argument is reasoned – albeit, in my opinion misinformed by the “fact” that a “soul” exists in the first place.
If the argument is recast, without the socio-religious presumption that a fetus has a soul, and is therefore not a human being (with the rights and privileges thereby associated) until birth, then when during the process of gestation is abortion not wrong?

Now the issue opens serious debate and interpretation, hinging on growth and stage development. Questions must be asked:

At what point can the fetus survive outside the womb? Generally speaking, there is a 50% survival rate for prematurely born babies at about the 24th week of gestation – is that the cutoff?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co..._table.svg

Do we need to look earlier in the gestation period? Prior to the transition from a zygote (embryogenesis) and fetal development which normally occurs between the 8th and 10th week?

Absent the soul argument (moment of conception), there are myriad choices to make along gestational development to determine the moral choice of ending a potential human life.

My personal view, which is informed by Humanist understanding and respect for life, along with scientific evidence, is that termination of a pregnancy after the fetal transition is where I draw the line.

Why?

There are two primary reasons why this makes sense to me.

First, medical studies show that nearly one quarter of pregnancies are self-terminated by the 6th week of pregnancy. The human body, for whatever reason, rejects the embryo during this development phase. Most times, this self-abortion is never recognized – chalked up to a heavier period flow which would be attributed to delayed menstruation. If a woman’s body conducts this self-abortion naturally, medical assistance during the same time frame cannot be viewed as immoral.

Second, the transitional phase from zygote to fetus is marked by a singular important development – that of the spinal cord and the central nervous system. Prior to this development, the embryo has no feelings – it is simply a developing clump of cellular formation; however, once the fetus can actually feel pain, the morality of external termination is certainly questionable.

Unfortunately, for those that support a woman’s right to choose, there is no clear cut, definitive answer that approaches the clarity of the position held by the pro-life camp.

You have a reasonable and defensible position, logically and morally.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: Abortion
I find to whole debate stupid as the religion that backs it. It's up to the woman case closed!

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
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23-08-2012, 10:19 AM
RE: Abortion
We must remember were talking about the Catholic church home of the pedophile and the Mafia ran bank an the extremest Pentecostalism and Evangelical churches. all of them are brain dead. They have been counter productive to progress of science .

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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23-08-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: Abortion
My pregnancy is none of your business. It is mine and the father's, but definitely not yours, so stay out of it.

Geez!

(No, I am not really pregnant Tongue)

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23-08-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Abortion
I'm pro-choice, I'm mostly concerned that the woman will decide rationally about what to do, however I'm not going to force anything.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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23-08-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Abortion
NEOA, Dom,

I agree by the way, completely - this is simply an opinion and not one that I would advocate making policy.

But I did note the rise in public opinion over the last decade in support of Pro-life - it indicated that Pro-choice advocates are losing the public argument on the issue and have already moved significantly down the slippery slope by ceding ground on late term abortions, viability outside the womb, etc., etc.

My intent was to focus the issue with regard to making a clearer case in the defense of Pro-choice, which I think will end up being eroded in the near future...

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23-08-2012, 10:33 AM
RE: Abortion
(23-08-2012 10:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  My pregnancy is none of your business. It is mine and the father's, but definitely not yours, so stay out of it.

Geez!

(No, I am not really pregnant Tongue)

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

The complicated part is late term pregnancy when the fetus is viable.

What if you are 'due' tomorrow? Is it really OK to abort today?
Due next week?
Due next month?

Pre-viable, no problem.

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23-08-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Abortion
(23-08-2012 10:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 10:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  My pregnancy is none of your business. It is mine and the father's, but definitely not yours, so stay out of it.

Geez!

(No, I am not really pregnant Tongue)

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

The complicated part is late term pregnancy when the fetus is viable.

What if you are 'due' tomorrow? Is it really OK to abort today?
Due next week?
Due next month?

Pre-viable, no problem.

still none of your business!

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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23-08-2012, 10:41 AM
RE: Abortion
I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

The complicated part is late term pregnancy when the fetus is viable.

What if you are 'due' tomorrow? Is it really OK to abort today?
Due next week?
Due next month?

Pre-viable, no problem.
[/quote]

What a red herring! that never happens unless it can cause the death of the mother. This is just another tactic by the right to life people. I was one of them and know all the tricks.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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