Abortion, choice or murder?
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05-02-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 11:05 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 01:31 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If you don't like abortion, don't have one. If you don't like a label, don't use it.

You were unable to answer my question. I will ask you again to explain what is abortion vs. what is murder.

If a mother aborts a fetus after the point of viability? Abortion or murder?

What about when the baby is full term? Abortion or murder?

During the birthing process, before the child has fully exited the womb? Abortion or murder?

Before the cutting of the umbilical cord? Abortion or murder?

Before the child can talk and express his own views? Abortion or murder?

Before the child can move out and live on his own? Abortion or murder?

Before the child is a legal adult? Abortion or murder?

You danced around the question because, as I said, you don't have a logical definition for what is abortion vs. murder. You're just drawing a line in the sand somewhere. That is the only point I was making. Please acknowledge that.

I don't care about your point; I don't care about your questions. I have deemed your questions specious and grossly rhetorical and have dismissed them as such. There is no dancing around by me at all. I really don't care what you think -- your line of questions add nothing to the discussion at all. Pity you seem too thick to realize it.

Admittedly I am often bemused by the fact men seem to think they have the right, or dare I suggest, duty to weigh in on this topic at all -- especially since their legs aren't the ones in the stirrups, but that's another issue in and of itself.

If you don't like abortion then don't have one.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-02-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
If men were the ones carrying babies, abortion would long have been legal everywhere at any time.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-02-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
I like the idea of considering that the unborn is a person, then the person choosing the abortion is at least thinking about it from that perspective, giving it the dignity and respect and consideration this difficult decision requires.

We don't need to dehumanise it, call it a tumor or a clump of cells.
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05-02-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 12:11 PM)Dom Wrote:  If men were the ones carrying babies, abortion would long have been legal everywhere at any time.

Absolutely. No doubt. I heard (somewhere - can't remember) something to the tune of ' if men were the ones getting pregnant there'd be shops for abortion as handy as Starbucks. They'd be everywhere!'

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-02-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 11:05 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 01:31 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If you don't like abortion, don't have one. If you don't like a label, don't use it.

You were unable to answer my question. I will ask you again to explain what is abortion vs. what is murder.

If a mother aborts a fetus after the point of viability? Abortion or murder?

What about when the baby is full term? Abortion or murder?

During the birthing process, before the child has fully exited the womb? Abortion or murder?

Before the cutting of the umbilical cord? Abortion or murder?

Before the child can talk and express his own views? Abortion or murder?

Before the child can move out and live on his own? Abortion or murder?

Before the child is a legal adult? Abortion or murder?

You danced around the question because, as I said, you don't have a logical definition for what is abortion vs. murder. You're just drawing a line in the sand somewhere. That is the only point I was making. Please acknowledge that.


Drawing a "line in the sand" is necessary so a decision may be reached. Period. And Someone Has to do that - reach a decision.
And the Person who should Reach a decision would be the ONE person bearing the responsibility: The woman who is pregnant. Period.
It is absolutely No One's decision other than hers. IF she wishes to confer or take into account other opinions - that is also her Choice.

When YOU are told "you're pregnant" --- then and Only then - do you get to make the decision of what to do next. If no one ever says personally To you "You're pregnant" then its a decision you won't face.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-02-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 12:11 PM)Dom Wrote:  If men were the ones carrying babies, abortion would long have been legal everywhere at any time.

Yes it wouldn't be discussed at all and they'd be champions of the whole "it's my body, my choice." Drinking Beverage


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-02-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 12:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I like the idea of considering that the unborn is a person, then the person choosing the abortion is at least thinking about it from that perspective, giving it the dignity and respect and consideration this difficult decision requires.

We don't need to dehumanise it, call it a tumor or a clump of cells.

Are you a man?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-02-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
I, as a man, will join the woman's chorus (please put me in the back, my voice is loud and deep and I cannot carry a tune).

If men got pregnant abortion would not be an issue it would be accepted. A comment that is sad at this stage of human development but true. It is hard to simply shrug off millennia of male dominated society in a few years.

As a further reminder of what male dominance has meant, to the best of my knowledge much more has been and for the most part continues to be spent studying male specific vs. female specific health issues.
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05-02-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 12:06 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 11:05 AM)frankksj Wrote:  what is abortion vs. what is murder....
Before the child is a legal adult? Abortion or murder?

Drawing a "line in the sand" is necessary so a decision may be reached. Period. And Someone Has to do that - reach a decision.
And the Person who should Reach a decision would be the ONE person bearing the responsibility: The woman who is pregnant. Period.
It is absolutely No One's decision other than hers. IF she wishes to confer or take into account other opinions - that is also her Choice.

Please confirm you read my question above and your reply. You've said that since the mother bears responsibility for her children until they become legal adults, at age 18, the only person who can decide if terminating the child's life is abortion or murder is the mother. So, if a mother kills her 17 year old daughter, it is nobody's business but the mother's, and the daughter has no independent right to live unless the mother allows.

That's what you just said when I asked where you draw the line when abortion becomes murder somewhere between (a) conception, and (b) the child becoming an adult. You stated it's the mother's responsibility to decide where she draws the line.
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05-02-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 12:09 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't care about your point; I don't care about your questions. I have deemed your questions specious and grossly rhetorical and have dismissed them as such. There is no dancing around by me at all.... If you don't like abortion then don't have one.

Well then, it's a good thing you don't care what I think. Because I think you're an idiot. You just said 'if you don't like abortion, don't have one', but when I asked you to define WHAT an abortion actually is, you were left speechless, dismissed the question as 'specious and grossly rhetorical', etc. If you, yourself, cannot get around what's an abortion and what's murder, then you're ill equipped to tell others whether abortion is moral or not since you haven't even decided what it is!
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